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View Diary: DC Mayor Rejects Living Wage Ordinance. California to Raise Minimum Wage to $10. (70 comments)

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  •  Which, of course, is why Australia, (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    allergywoman, Crider, sukeyna, FogCityJohn

    with a minimum wage equivalent to about $15 US (with some exceptions), has horrible unemployment and went into a terrible recession.

    Not.  (5.8%, in fact avoided the Great Recession)

    •  Correlation is not causation. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      VClib, erush1345, MGross, Sparhawk

      And Australia -- for so, so, so many reasons --- is not the United States.  Those two principles are so basic I can't believe I'm having to repeat them here, but if you are (foolishly) arguing, in essence,  "Australia's minimum wage CAUSED the 5.8% unemployment rate and if we raise our minimum wage to the same level we'll get 5.8% unemployment, too!" I guess I have to.  So, if that's your point, (1) provide evidence that one CAUSED the other; and (2) provide evidence that Australia's economy is so much like the U.S. that the same factor will cause the same effect here.  Hint: you can't -- Australia's economy is very different, much more heavily dependent on mining, for starters. And what's causing the economic slowdown in Australia now?  If correlation equaled causation, you'd argue that the high minimum wage was.  

      As I said, the economic studies I've read on the subject do not all agree on how much you can raise the minimum wage before you begin to see a negative impact on jobs.   California will be an interesting test.  

      •  It's nothing but simple supply and demand (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        FogCityJohn

        Supply siders keep forgetting that demand is what causes things to be sold in the first place. Higher wages = more demand.

        Supply-side economics is just Reagan-era bunk.

        "Societies strain harder and harder to sustain the decadent opulence of the ruling class, even as it destroys the foundations of productivity and wealth." — Chris Hedges

        by Crider on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 11:06:21 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  You're being deliberately obtuse. (0+ / 0-)

        JP isn't saying a high minimum wage caused Australia's (relatively) low unemployment.  He's saying that Australia has a high minimum wage, a fact which co-exists just fine with its relatively low unemployment.

        Thus, if a high minimum wage caused high unemployment, one would expect to see higher unemployment in Australia than in the U.S., because Australia's minimum wage is higher.  But that's not what we see.  So contrary to your tired Republican claims, a high minimum wage does not seem to lead inevitably to high unemployment.

        I won't respond to your "American exceptionalism" argument, since it's the last refuge of every right winger.

        "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

        by FogCityJohn on Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 04:18:46 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  However... (0+ / 0-)

        A $15 minimum wage may or may not have caused low unemployment in Australia, but:

        A $15 minimum wage didn't cause high unemployment in Australia.

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