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View Diary: Meet George Zimmerman's Racist Defender(s) (183 comments)

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  •  Oh, please, at least have integrity enough to (8+ / 0-)

    own your actions.

    "Southern nights have you ever felt a southern night?" Allen Toussaint ~~Remember the Gulf of Mexico~~

    by rubyr on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 08:55:29 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  There is a difference (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      VClib, Pi Li, denise b

      between believing (as I did after watching the trial) that the prosecution did not meet its burden of proof at the trial, and "defending" Zimmerman.  

      The first is a legal conclusion, which I commented on as a lawyer.  

      The second is a moral conclusion -- and I've NEVER done that.  

      Some people here confuse the legal conclusion that the prosecution did not meet its burden of proof under the law with "defending Zimmerman."  They are not the same, unless you think that Zimmerman was not entitled to the same legal process as any other defendant. If that's what you think -- that Zimmerman was not constitutionally entitled to have the prosecution meet its burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt -- then I guess discussing the fact that the prosecution did not meet its burden of proof might be "defending Zimmerman."  

    •  Hmmmm (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      VClib

      This is a progressive site, we believe in due process of law. Please take your pro-police state, anti-Fifth Amendment rhetoric to Red State where it belongs.

      Dammit Jim, I'm a lawyer, not a grammarian. So sue me.

      by Pi Li on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 10:45:18 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  This just too rich. I would be laughing my (7+ / 0-)

        head off if I could just stop puking.

        Maya Angelou: "Without courage, we cannot practice any other virtue with consistency. We can't be kind, true, merciful, generous, or honest."

        by JoanMar on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 11:06:25 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Ditto. Red state!! ha ha ha ha Let's see, if (7+ / 0-)

          you don't like murderers of young, black men and the people who defend them, you belong at Red State. ha ha ha ha ha

          "Southern nights have you ever felt a southern night?" Allen Toussaint ~~Remember the Gulf of Mexico~~

          by rubyr on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 11:08:59 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Police State Defender. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            VClib

            Dammit Jim, I'm a lawyer, not a grammarian. So sue me.

            by Pi Li on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 11:09:38 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  You seriously need to look inside yourself. (6+ / 0-)

              You can do or be or say or write anything you want to, but I don't have to like it and I can call it exactly what it is. You may have noticed that a huge number of people feel the same as I do. Are all of these people misunderstanding you?

              "Southern nights have you ever felt a southern night?" Allen Toussaint ~~Remember the Gulf of Mexico~~

              by rubyr on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 11:17:54 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Tell you what (4+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                HairyTrueMan, VClib, coffeetalk, denise b

                I can't speak for coffeetalk, or Adam B, or VCLib, or any of the other numerous attorney's on here who have been called "Zimmerman defenders", but show me a SINGLE instance where I "defended" Zimmerman, or his behaviour, I'll admit you're right and won't post on this topic again.

                This site has quite a good search function, so it should be no problem. During your search you might stumble across the numerous posts where I said that Zimmerman likely profiled Martin b/c of his race, and that had he been black he would have been arrested that night, and that there are serious problems with regard to race in the criminal justice system...in between my repeated remarks regarding his stupid behaviour, both that night and since then.  Just ignore those posts, and find bits where I defend him, and get back to me.

                If you want to have an ounce of integrity, you, and others pushing the "Zimmerman defenders" meme, will back up your accusations with facts.

                Fair?

                (this where where you tell me you can't be bothered to look, and that all of us lawyer types are just hiding behind legal "mumbo jumbo", the Constitution, due process, and stuff like that).

                Dammit Jim, I'm a lawyer, not a grammarian. So sue me.

                by Pi Li on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 11:29:20 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Don't throw AdamB under the bus w/the rest of you. (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  doroma, JoanMar, a2nite

                  We know that he actually cares about the legal stuff. That he is  not just one of the Defender(s).

                  And it is pathetic that you are calling proud civil rights advocates 'police state defenders.' It's sick, actually. Something only a cheeto-eating keyboard warrior would do. I bet you've never fought, marched, protested, worked or lobbied for ANYTHING. Coward.

                  Ho'oponopono. To make things right; restore harmony; heal.

                  by earicicle on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 11:42:12 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  You have no idea what you're talking about (5+ / 0-)

                    One thing I do know, however, with 100% certainty, it that I've sent more 100% more people to prison for hate crimes than you have, and have done more for AA victims of crime and their families than you have. This, I can say with utter certainty. I can also say, with absolute certainty, that I understand the legal issues on this case more than you do. I can also say, with equal certainty, that you cannot find a single instance where I defended George Zimmerman or his actions. No.a.single.time.

                    Oh, BTW, some of the people commenting in this diary have, in fact, accused AdamB of being a Zimmerman defender...and others called him worse than that on this issue. So get your facts together, and try again.

                    Dammit Jim, I'm a lawyer, not a grammarian. So sue me.

                    by Pi Li on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 11:53:05 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  Thanks for that "Cheeto eating warrior slam nt (0+ / 0-)

                    nosotros no somos estúpidos

                    by a2nite on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 04:19:10 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

            •  Look in the mirror first Zhole defender nt (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              JoanMar

              nosotros no somos estúpidos

              by a2nite on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 04:23:15 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Yup, rubyr (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            JoanMar

            nosotros no somos estúpidos

            by a2nite on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 04:17:38 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Why do you hate the 5th & 6th Amendments so much? (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          HairyTrueMan, VClib

          Dammit Jim, I'm a lawyer, not a grammarian. So sue me.

          by Pi Li on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 11:09:06 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Oh please. (6+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        a2nite, earicicle, poco, JoanMar, bluezen, doroma

        This is complete and utter BS.  You know full well no one here -- and I mean no one -- is suggesting that Zimmerman should not have received all the procedural protections to which any defendant is entitled under the Constitution.  That's a complete red herring.

        What people here have claimed is that Zimmerman's crime, arrest, prosecution, and trial were infected with racism.  Your (and coffeetalk's) efforts to maintain that the verdict was all about "reasonable doubt" ignores the racial aspect of the entire case.  Things like "reasonable doubt" and "reasonable fear" are inherently subjective, and in this country, people's understandings of them will be affected by racism.

        Your claims elsewhere that those criticizing Zimmerman are "police state defenders" are richly ironic.  For black people, this country has long been a police state (see, e.g., NYC's stop and frisk policy), so it's more than a little strange for you to accuse them of supporting a police state.  Their argument is that "justice" in this country is anything but colorblind.  If you don't see that, well, then there's not much I can say to you.

        "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

        by FogCityJohn on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 03:45:18 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Indeed (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          coffeetalk, VClib
          You know full well no one here -- and I mean no one -- is suggesting that Zimmerman should not have received all the procedural protections to which any defendant is entitled under the Constitution.  That's a complete red herring.
          You know what's also a red herring? Calling experienced attorneys, including prosecutors, PD's, and in private practice (who mostly turned out to be correct) who discussed the legal aspects of this case, and tried to explain the law, "racist Zimmerman defenders". No one -- and I mean no one -- is defending Zimmerman here. So thanks for playing, I'm glad you got the point.
          there's not much I can say to you.
          A right I encourage you to exercise vigorously. :)

          Dammit Jim, I'm a lawyer, not a grammarian. So sue me.

          by Pi Li on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 03:57:18 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Oh yeah (6+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            a2nite, earicicle, poco, JoanMar, bluezen, doroma

            That's right.  You're the experienced prosecutor, the one from that unidentified state in which you're a member of the bar, which state may or may not be Florida, but which you can't say because it would give away something about your identity.  

            You weren't describing the "legal aspects of the case."  You were ignoring the racist aspect of it.  

            And I thank you for playing too, Ms. Mysterious International Prosecutor Lady.

            "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

            by FogCityJohn on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 04:05:20 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Hey (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              coffeetalk, VClib

              That's Professor Mysterious International Prosecutor Lady to you!

              I wonder whose irony meter is truly broken, Mr. Police State Defender? ;)

              PS...Sorry for not discussing the aspects of the case in the way "FogCityJohn" would have liked. :)

              Dammit Jim, I'm a lawyer, not a grammarian. So sue me.

              by Pi Li on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 04:11:02 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  X2 FCJ (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JoanMar, FogCityJohn, doroma

          nosotros no somos estúpidos

          by a2nite on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 04:14:46 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Where? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      coffeetalk, Pi Li

      Show us.

      If you can make an accusation like this you can back it up. I would like to see it.

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