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View Diary: More on Colorado recalls and voter turnout (287 comments)

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  •  I've said before... (10+ / 0-)

    that many "gun advocates" are also democrats (we even have a group here.) That is what makes this a loosing issue for us. It is kinda like "pro life" republicans who for that one issue loose a section of their base right up front.

    You have named a big segment of that group. Labor democrats often oppose gun control measures that restrict which firearms they can buy. Union jobs frequently pay well and plenty of these democrats collect firearms.

    A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. Franklin D. Roosevelt

    by notrouble on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 10:46:08 AM PDT

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    •  But that doesn't fit the narrative. (6+ / 0-)

      There are those who simply don't want to acknowledge the fact that there are a significant number of Democrats who simply do not and will not support onerous gun-control laws.

      When such laws are pushed, they stay home, or, as was shown in the recall in question, they'll vote based on that issue.

      Yes, I often dress as a pirate. Your point?

      by theatre goon on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 11:19:10 AM PDT

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      •  I don't think they can ignore me (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        theatre goon, 43north

        I am quite blunt about going after anti-gun pols, D or R.

        Heck, I've been hiderated for it, lol.

        •  It would appear... (4+ / 0-)

          ...that not everyone here agrees with the overall position of "more and better Democrats."

          I can fully understand people leaning more towards either the more or the better, but I see quite a few insisting that only the more is acceptable.

          Yes, I often dress as a pirate. Your point?

          by theatre goon on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 12:05:10 PM PDT

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          •  If you don't agree . . . (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            tytalus, coquiero, Glen The Plumber

            then I have to question why you're on this site.  This site's explicit mission is electing more and better Democrats.  If you're willing to see Republicans elected because you are aligned with their views on guns, then you're undermining the site's mission.

            And I'd note that you've just recc'ed a comment about "going after" Democratic politicians.

            "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

            by FogCityJohn on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 12:47:03 PM PDT

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            •  Didn't say I agreed or disagreed.... (6+ / 0-)

              ...with the overall stance, so, you are attributing to me a stance not taken -- an inherently dishonest tactic.  I certainly didn't say that I am "...willing to see Republicans elected..." so, that part of your assertion is completely unsupportable.

              But, perhaps you were just extremely mistaken in your interpretation.  I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, that this is the case.

              I recced a comment for what was in that comment, nothing more, nothing less.  You know, how we're supposed to do it?  Rec the comment, not the poster...?

              What I recced was a comment in which someone states that they don't support candidates that they don't agree with -- seems perfectly believable, to me, and on-point, particularly when one considers the better part of "more and better Democrats."

              I also recced a comment in which someone stated that they have been HRed for that stance -- proven in this very thread.

              That being the case, both major tenets of the comment seem to be factual and in keeping with the overall site mission statement.

              Now, if you want to discuss my actual position on this little tangent, all you'd have to do is ask me what it is, rather than assigning it to me.

              That is, if you want to have an honest and adult discussion.  If you simply want to attack me for positions not taken, you don't really need my input for that, now, do you?

              Yes, I often dress as a pirate. Your point?

              by theatre goon on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 12:58:13 PM PDT

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            •  Then you should be against gun control (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              gerrilea

              As both past & present elections prove.

              Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

              by FrankRose on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 01:51:25 PM PDT

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            •  Stop playing "Purity Police". (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              43north, gerrilea, DavidMS

              You aren't very good at it, and it's a shitty game.

              Your hate-mail will be graded.

              by PavePusher on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 04:50:41 PM PDT

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            •  maybe he has a different definition of better (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              43north, gerrilea

              one that includes civil rights.

              “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

              by ban nock on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 06:30:33 PM PDT

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          •  re not everyone agrees (5+ / 0-)

            If you want support you must earn it.  Maintain it.  The 'more and better' message has become a demand not a goal.  People are clubbed with it, punished even.  People follow out of respect, not out of obligation.

            •  Personally, I think it's a case-by-case thing. (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              FrankRose, Tom Seaview, Noodles, 43north

              To take an extreme and well-known example, I certainly wasn't willing to support Jon Edwards for any elected office, after certain information came out, even if he was a Democrat.

              Would I vote Republican in response?  No, that's the time I would stay home -- hypothetically speaking, of course, my voting for Edwards never came up.

              But, it's also somewhat off-topic, at this point, so I'll drop it there.

              Yes, I often dress as a pirate. Your point?

              by theatre goon on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 01:19:56 PM PDT

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      •  What Onerous Gun Laws? (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Glen The Plumber, coquiero, TheFern

        Is it the wisdom of gun control generally or turn out that best accounts for Tuesday’s results in Colorado?  If gun control is so anathema to Colorado voters then how did the gun laws to which this vote was supposedly a reaction ever pass in the first place ?  
        A
         little bit of reflection upon the events leading up to this awkwardly conducted vote tells us the answer.

        •  I'm not sure what you're asking, to be honest. (5+ / 0-)

          How were the gun laws passed?  By the legislators, including those who were so recently recalled.  

          The laws I have most often seen given as a reason why they should have been recalled was the restriction on magazine size and the expanded background checks (not necessarily because people were against expanded checks, in and of themselves, but they were against the way this specific one was written).

          The most common sentiment I have seen given by those supporting the recall was that they felt that they were not being appropriately represented by the legislators in question.

          As you can see from the discussion in this diary, as well as others, exactly what caused the recall to be successful is not agreed upon.

          Yes, I often dress as a pirate. Your point?

          by theatre goon on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 12:40:17 PM PDT

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          •  Ok (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            FogCityJohn, TheFern

            It seems that turn out is a more credible explanation than going on bombastically about gun control.

            A more interesting question is how many of these dissatisfied voters actually voted for the recalled legislators to begin with.

            •  Democrats turned out (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              theatre goon, notrouble, ER Doc

              And 20%-30% of them voted for the recall.

              Turnout was low. Seeing as how Morse & Giron had plenty of money, this was the 1st two recall elections in the state's history & this election garnered national attention, the problem wasn't that people weren't aware of the election;

              The problem was that banning objects from their constituents didn't seem to inspire them to go vote for Morse & Giron.

              Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

              by FrankRose on Fri Sep 13, 2013 at 02:00:12 PM PDT

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