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View Diary: 40 Years of Neoliberal Attacks on our Societies (28 comments)

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  •  Don't overstate your case (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    duhban, JeffW

    Whatever Nixon and Kissinger wanted was pretty irrelevant.  The Chilean military didn't need any outside advice or support to carry out a coup, and I've never seen anything to indicate US support was crucial in any way to the success of the coup.  The US doesn't control the outcome of every event overseas.

    Cynicism is what passes for insight among the mediocre.

    by Sky Net on Sat Sep 14, 2013 at 07:43:20 PM PDT

    •  If you ignore years and years of history (9+ / 0-)

      the rise of fascism everywhere with US support before it became problematic to do so, supporting the Somoza regime, the Indonesian genocide, the economic ideology used by Pinochet and then helping him get off, sure.

      I gotta laugh at what I read at this site sometimes.

      Those who deflect debates about the issues with complaints about tone usually have a lot to atone for.

      by priceman on Sat Sep 14, 2013 at 08:41:06 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  That's revisionist at best. The US had extensive (11+ / 0-)

      involvement beginning in the 1960s trying to manipulate elections and significant CIA involvement for many years.

      Chile, fairly unique among South American nations, had a long, solid tradition of democracy. Strong democracy went back over 40 years before the coup - to the 1930s.  It wasn't at all a given outcome that the Chilean military would carry out a coup without US encouragement and support. In fact, millions of dollars flowed to Chile for exactly that purpose.

      The USA supplied weapons and cash in 1970 specifically for the purpose of removing General René Schneider, head of the Chilean military, because he was a powerful constitutionalist who the CIA knew would oppose a coup. He was subsequently murdered trying to defend himself from being "kidnapped." With him now gone, others in the military had more power with which to conspire.  The CIA also paid "hush money" to Chileans involved, after the fact. How is that not material aid toward a coup?

      The CIA had advance knowledge of the 1973 coup planning against Allende for months.  They did nothing to warn his government, obviously, having encouraged the downfall of the military leader who would have blocked any later coups. At any rate, it was Kissinger's plan and his desire that Allende be deposed.

      It's just utterly false that the USA had no role in what was taking place. We'd spent millions for at least a decade to undermine democratic government in Chile.

      Here's someone who might disagree strongly with your commentary above.

      Kissinger is a war criminal and should be prosecuted. Your comment takes leave of the facts established in history.

      "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

      by YucatanMan on Sat Sep 14, 2013 at 11:40:47 PM PDT

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      •  Aid (0+ / 0-)

        You're still making a broad assumption here that whatever US support for the coup that there was actually determined the outcome.  I'm pretty sure the Chilean military had sufficient weaponry and cash to kidnap Schneider and didn't need much to carry that out, but please do elaborate.

        I always think it's a bit rich when people say the US helped bring on the coup by blocking loans from the World Bank, which everyone here seems to believe has as its singular mission to destroy developing economies.  Funny how the logic breaks down there.

        MB's diary is pretty classic, calling Kissinger the architect of the coup because, you know, the Chilean military just couldn't figure out how to do it until Kissinger told them how.    There's this incredible desire to ensure the US is at the center of all stories, which simply isn't the case.  What do the Chileans think?  Have any of the coup plotters said they just couldn't have done it without us?

        Cynicism is what passes for insight among the mediocre.

        by Sky Net on Sun Sep 15, 2013 at 05:56:06 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Because you say so, is pretty much the evidence (5+ / 0-)

          you cite.

          The millions of dollars, the decades of shady elections activities including stoking anger against democracy, the weapons delivered in military pouches and the hush money delivered to coup conspirators, these count for nothing, because the Chilean military was going to depose the leader elected no matter what.  After 40 years of solid democracy, the lower ranks of the military just decided to usurp power for no reason at all.

          It wasn't that Nixon literally ordered the economic screws put to Chile for desiring their socialist -- not Communist -- government. It wasn't the coup planning of Track 1 and Track 2 that Kissinger put into place.

          None of those years of US interference, money, clandestine meetings, political and economic pressure or weapons had any influence at all.

          You tell a remarkable tale of US non-collusion. The problem is that none of it is based in facts.

          You made an extraordinary claim about history, but provided no sources or links, only your own repeated statements which contradict known facts, known history.

          Meteor Blades diaries are accurate.  My citations are directly from history. Where is your evidence?

          "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

          by YucatanMan on Sun Sep 15, 2013 at 08:30:10 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Evidence (0+ / 0-)

            Really, the burden of proof is on you.  Obviously the Chilean military did the coup for their own reasons, not because Kissinger ordered them to.  Like I said, if you find a coup plotter who said they undertook the coup to make Henry Kissinger happy, you let us know.  You need to demonstrate that whatever the US did had a material impact on the result.    And the fact that we didn't approve World Bank loans isn't going to convince anyone.  Allende didn't need our help to tank the Chilean economy.

            Cynicism is what passes for insight among the mediocre.

            by Sky Net on Sun Sep 15, 2013 at 12:18:59 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Proof? Do you have any of that to go along ... (7+ / 0-)

          ...with your opinion? You call my diary "classic." It is, in fact, your unsourced commentary that is classic. Try this from actual documents in the National Security Archive. And we don't even know what was destroyed:

          The coup against Allende occurred on this date 40 years ago. The posted records spotlight Kissinger's role as the principal policy architect of U.S. efforts to oust the Chilean leader, and assist in the consolidation of the Pinochet dictatorship in Chile.

          Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

          by Meteor Blades on Sun Sep 15, 2013 at 09:46:25 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  architect (0+ / 0-)

            Kissinger may have been the architect of US efforts, but that hardly makes him the architect of the coup, unless you believe everyone just follows Kissinger's orders everywherw in the world.

            But if you'd like a link, i'm happy to provide one.  If you can't get the whole piece let ne know and i'll try to cut and paste it when i'm not doing this on a mobile.

            Cynicism is what passes for insight among the mediocre.

            by Sky Net on Sun Sep 15, 2013 at 12:08:46 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Oh, FFS... (6+ / 0-)

              ...No need to cut and paste. I have been a subscriber to Foreign Affairs for 41 years, so I have acces. Until I moved a couple of years ago, I had stacks of the publication hanging around my house.

              You're citing something written by a man who was joined at the hip with Kissinger for decades since his service in the State Department and who worked for Kissinger & Associates, which he co-founded, for 25 years.

              You might note the imbroglio between Maxwell and Foreign Affairs regarding what you linked, a fight that led to Maxwell's resignation because the publication broke its own long-standing rules by refusing to give Maxwell approval to publish a letter in response.

              New documents have come to light since Rogers's self-serving piece confirming Kornbluh's original views.

              You are going to have to do better than that.

              Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

              by Meteor Blades on Sun Sep 15, 2013 at 12:36:32 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Foreign Affairs (0+ / 0-)

                Actually the piece has a response from Maxwell appended.  You didn't mention anything in the article that you disagreed with so can't respond to that.

                Rogers' defense of the Nixon administration's human rights policy is weak, but his analysis of the situation on the ground in Chile seems pretty solid.  Chileans carried out the coup for their own reasons.  US policy at the time was pretty crappy, bit I think you give far too much credit to Nixon and Kissinger for their ability to micro-manage the actions of Chileans.

                Cynicism is what passes for insight among the mediocre.

                by Sky Net on Sun Sep 15, 2013 at 12:55:16 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

        •  The framing that its not a neoliberal support ... (4+ / 0-)

          ... for the Washington Consensus neoliberal policies unless the United State was the primary force in the coup itself is a phony framing.

          Its still neoliberal policy if other neoliberals outside the United States played a role in formulating the economic policies of the leader of the coup.

          Its still neoliberal policy if neoliberals in the United States merely welcomed the coup and took advantage of it to advance their agenda.

          Nobody can retain their credibility and also deny that South American military leaders were trained in neoliberal policy by the United States military. Given that Chile under Pinochet went adopted a full bore, nearly unadulturated neoliberal policy package, your argument devolves to whether we helped convinced the Chilean military of the validity of neoliberalism and they then overthrew the elected government with our documented support, or whether we drove the coup and then forced the Chilean military to adopt neoliberal policies.

          Chile offers in either case an example of the destruction done in support of neoliberal policies.

          Support Lesbian Creative Works with Yuri anime and manga from ALC Publishing

          by BruceMcF on Sun Sep 15, 2013 at 12:01:00 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Sheer ignorance and complete untruth. (9+ / 0-)

      Posted in 1998 upon release of documents under FOIA.

      ...Despite the odds, Nixon ordered the CIA to try. The covert action to reverse the results of the Chilean election -- by political or military means -took the code name, "Project FUBELT."

      ..."The President asked the Agency to prevent Allende from coming to power or to unseat him," Helms added. The CIA had 48 hours to present an action plan to Kissinger....

      ...After Allende's inauguration on Nov. 3, the CIA continued working toward a military coup.

      ...The highlights of "Project FUBELT" were cited in both the newly released CIA documents and in papers uncovered by the 1975 congressional inquiry.

      Covert funds were funneled into Chilean congressional campaigns; CIA agents stayed close to disgruntled Chilean military officers; to keep the military on edge, the CIA planted false propaganda suggesting that the Chilean left planned to take control of the armed forces; and the CIA secretly poured $1.5 million into one of Chile's leading newspapers, El Mercurio.

      But the CIA covert operation was only one leg of what U.S. officials called "a triad" of actions toward Chile...A second leg was "correct but cool" diplomatic pressure and a third leg was the "invisible blockade" of loans and credits to Chile.

      ...At the Inter-American Development Bank, the NSC simply informed the U.S. representative that he did not have authority to vote for loans to Chile.

      A secret report -- prepared for Kissinger several weeks after Allende's inauguration -- said, "the U.S. Executive Director of the Inter-American Development Bank understands that he will remain uninstructed until further notice on pending loans to Chile. As ... an affirmative vote by the U.S. is required for loan approval, this will effectively bar approval of the loans."

      ...In addition, the president of the Export-lmport Bank agreed to "cooperate fully" with Assistant Secretary of State for Inter-American Affairs Charles Meyer on the discontinuation of new credits and guarantees to Chile.

      The Nixon administration also moved to isolate Allende's government diplomatically around the world.

      ...The mix of economic sabotage, political propaganda and army prodding worked. Allende found himself confronted by growing disorder and soaring inflation. At every turn, his policies encountered well-funded adversaries.

      On Sept. 11, 1973, amid the mounting chaos, Chile's military struck. In a classic coup d'etat, the army seized control of strategic sites throughout the country and cornered Allende in his presidential offices. ...

      ...CIA records detailing clandestine operations after the coup remain highly classified. But the "40 Committee," chaired by Kissinger, immediately authorized the CIA to "assist the junta in gaining a more positive image, both at home and abroad," according to documents previously revealed by the Senate Intelligence Committee....

      Now go read about Project FUBELT where
      • Handwritten notes, taken by CIA director Richard Helms, record the orders of President Richard Nixon, to foster a coup in Chile
      • In the first meeting between Helms and high agency officials on the secret operations codenamed "FUBELT", a special task force under the supervision of CIA Deputy Director for Plans, Thomas Karamessines, is established, headed by veteran agent David Atlee Phillips. The memorandum notes that the CIA must prepare an action plan for National Security Advisor Henry Kissinger within 48 hours.
      • Henry Kissinger, Thomas Karamessines and Alexander Haig (military assistant to Henry Kissinger), in a meeting on October 15, 1970, discuss promoting a coup in Chile, known as "Track II" of covert operations. Kissinger orders the CIA to "continue keeping the pressure on every Allende weak spot in sight.
      • In a secret cable, Thomas Karamessines conveyed Kissinger's orders to CIA station chief in Santiago, Henry Hecksher: "It is firm and continuing policy that Allende be overthrown by a coup."

      You think this was all some kind of fucking coincidence?


      Actual Democrats: the surest, quickest, route to More Democrats. And actually addressing our various emergencies.

      by Jim P on Sun Sep 15, 2013 at 01:12:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Denialist. It's sorta the reverse of conspiracy (5+ / 0-)

        theorist, I guess. Someone who doesn't think the USA ever did anything wrong.

        "I've never seen..." as an argument just isn't an argument. It is a denial of evidence, facts, and history.

        Failure to face the truth of history, documents, testimony, killings, money, weapons, contacts, election manipulation and on and on.... it is a denial of reality.

        I guess some people need that in order to get through their day.

        "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

        by YucatanMan on Sun Sep 15, 2013 at 09:44:08 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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