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View Diary: 2 years since OWS began and 99 percent of us are still getting screwed (247 comments)

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  •  I totally understand your plan (1+ / 0-)
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    I was just noting that there are ways other than elections and voting to pressure politicians.

    •  What are those other ways? (0+ / 0-)

      Self preservation is the only principle that politicians adhere to with total consistency.

      Is there a way to put more pressure a politician than the threat of being fired?

      •  General strikes (1+ / 0-)
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        Debt strikes, mass protest to some extent. Boycotts.

        Is there a way to put more pressure a politician than the threat of being fired?
        If you've got enough people to fire the politician then you've got a shit ton of people and you can do a whole lot more.
        •  file under "assume a can opener." (0+ / 0-)
          •  Which is what people calling for (1+ / 0-)
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            electoral solutions are doing too. I was asked how politicians could be influenced outside voting, I answered. I never said it was easy or that we could do it immediately. But we can't get a progressive majority in government at any time in the foreseeable future either. Unless you have an idea you've been hiding while making sniping comments from the sidelines this whole time. Or is your solution doing the same thing everyone has been doing? The one that hasn't been working.

        •  Do boycotts pressure politicians? (0+ / 0-)

          Perhaps they do to some extent, but you can't seriously argue that it's anywhere approaching the pressure of losing an election.

          Let me ask you this -- who do you believe possesses the greatest ability to fix the problem?

          To me, I don't think it's even debatable. It is lawmakers.

          Banks will always push the absolute limits of the law, at an absolute minimum. And that's true for everyone. People don't drive 30 in a 55. They do the speed limit at a minimum.

          I mean, do you know of a way to make them behave differently that will work better than changing the law?

          •  You assume we can force a politician to lose (1+ / 0-)
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            And yes, I think it can force politicians to act. But remember that politicians aren't the enemy, corporations are. Politicians are a means to an end, which is to check the power of corporations that are destroying poor people and the middle class. Relegating the whole of the fight to government is going to be a losing proposition.

            •  Corporations are not the enemy. (0+ / 0-)

              You must understand that corporations are amoral and do not existence beyond a legal context. They're a legal fiction, an imaginary entity through which transactions flow.

              This makes them an obvious choice to be the scapegoat for corruption. As long as politicians can blame that scary monster hiding up in the mountains, the status quo will continue.

              •  Corporations are a legal form created specifically (1+ / 0-)
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                to minimize accountability and to facilitate oppression through colonialism. Corporations are immoral because they're amoral. They are the ones oppressing people and funneling money to the rich, the politicians just abet them in their crimes. Certainly, politicians are complicit, but the corporate form is not good, it contributes to the corruption in our society necessarily and always has.

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