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    BRASILIA - In a statement, the Press Secretary of the Presidency confirmed on Tuesday that President Dilma Rousseff will not make a state visit to the United States, on the 23rd of October. The information was early on the morning of Tuesday the columnist GLOBE Ilimar Franco. The note says that the trip was canceled because there was no determination, no explanation commitment to cease the spying of American security agency (NSA) to Brazilians, including the President and Petrobras.

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    Be the change you want to see in the world. -Gandhi

    by DRo on Tue Sep 17, 2013 at 10:51:11 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Excellent, we need the outside world to stand up (25+ / 0-)

      to our bully government, because as Americans, we are either too powerless, too ignored or too distracted to take our country back.

      The more countries treat us like the pariahs we have become, the better in hopes we'll one day deal with it ourselves.

      Now if we can only encourage European nations to fly drones over our towns and cities. I'd actually be happy about that.

      I'm just Double Tapped the hell out.

      by pajoly on Tue Sep 17, 2013 at 11:20:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Do you think other countries don't spy? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Hey338Too

        Are you aware of Brazil's long history of massive civil rights abuses, spying and phone tapping without warrants, and enough violations to make J. Edgar Hoover blush with shame?

        Of course not.

        In Snowden/Greenwaldland, the only nation that spies is apparently the USA.  The rest of the world is made up of innocent victims, natch.

        Watching the Snowden crowd move from claiming this was about domestic spying without warrants to TEH NSA SPIEZ ON FOREIGN GOVAMINTS! is hilarious.

        What's the purpose of the Snowden/Greenwald movement again? To ensure Civil Rights protections are in place?  Or to burn down the federal government of the United States?

        Incidentally, Greenwald confirmed that Snowden stole lists of NSA spy names and is using that as his "failsafe" trigger.  What a hero.    
         

        •  So, it doesn't matter "because everyone does it?" (14+ / 0-)

          The US supposedly proclaims to aspire to openness and fairness and liberty for all.

          You can't reach those aspirations when the stench of illogical fear permeates every institution in the nation.

          As for the "purpose" of the Snowden/Greenwald movement... it is to decouple the iron fist of the state from the corpo-fascist desires.

          To return a modicum of decency and right to privacy from the prying Peeping Toms of CorpUSA-NSAland.


          One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious. --Carl Jung

          by bronte17 on Tue Sep 17, 2013 at 01:08:18 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Not to mention (5+ / 0-)

            the Constitutional protections we are supposed to have.

            Even if "everyone does it", it doesn't make it legal.

            Not forgetting that the Europeans have some very tough data protection laws, something entirely absent in the US.

            I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
            but I fear we will remain Democrats.

            Who is twigg?

            by twigg on Tue Sep 17, 2013 at 02:28:53 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  It does matter (0+ / 0-)

            But can't you see that there's a small faction who simply want to hate the US government as they perceive it as the great source of evil in the universe?  Any and all data is fit to conform to that narrative.

            Back in the real world, Brazil is no innocent in this equation.

            •  Oh good god (5+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Nailbanger, jds1978, stevemb, DeadHead, elwior

              Win, you have to go with the small faction who want to hate the US?  
              Really.
              That is your take on the abuse?  
              Not because it is illegal and just plain WRONG.
              There is no f-cking movement, Win.
              No fan club either.
              Just appreciation for letting everyone worldwide in on the abuse of power?  
              Why do you think they are spying on political dissidents here in the US.
              Or writing the unconstitutional Patriat Act and especially the NDAA, where one can be disappeared with no phone call, no lawyer.
              WHY are these acts written?  
              You do need to wake up.

              Passing a law that the Constitution doesn't allow does not negate the Constitution, it negates the law that was passed. Secret courts can't make up secret laws. SORRY FOR THE TYPOS :)

              by snoopydawg on Tue Sep 17, 2013 at 04:05:41 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Spying on Brazil is "abuse"? (0+ / 0-)

                Says who?  Nations have been spying on each other since the beginning of time.  Those clutching their pearls and getting vapors when they discover the NSA spies on Brazil are either clueless clowns or fake outrage performers hoping to spin more crap into anti-government gold.

                •  Torturing prisoners in Gitmo is "abuse"? (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  stevemb, bronte17

                  Says who?  Nations have been torturing prisoners for information since the beginning of time.  Those clutching their pearls and getting vapors when they discover the military tortures detainees are either clueless clowns or fake outrage performers hoping to spin more crap into anti-government gold.

                  You have watched Faux News, now lose 2d10 SAN.

                  by Throw The Bums Out on Wed Sep 18, 2013 at 12:05:55 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  They seem to think so (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  stevemb

                  But the point of this article, since it seems to have gone over your head, is the abuse is the fact that they are spying on us, in violation of the 4th Amendment, no matter what secret court said it isn't illegal.
                  It is.
                  And spying on the rest of the world's citizens is abuse,
                  Would you think it was just fine if any other nation spied on us and collected all our data, or is this just more US exceptionalism shit?
                  You are a broken record with your BAD and thread jacking

                  Passing a law that the Constitution doesn't allow does not negate the Constitution, it negates the law that was passed. Secret courts can't make up secret laws. SORRY FOR THE TYPOS :)

                  by snoopydawg on Wed Sep 18, 2013 at 12:09:41 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

            •  Where Have I Heard This Sort Of Argument Before? (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Richard Lyon, 4kedtongue, DeadHead, elwior
              But can't you see that there's a small faction who simply want to hate the US government as they perceive it as the great source of evil in the universe?
              You really ought to file a lawsuit for infringement. If you get just one tenth of one percent of El Rushbo's moolah, you'd be sitting pretty.

              On the Internet, nobody knows if you're a dog... but everybody knows if you're a jackass.

              by stevemb on Tue Sep 17, 2013 at 05:18:07 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  There's a small fraction that wants to lick lizard (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              stevemb

              toes while wearing funny hats at the mall. One can find a "small fraction" for anything.

              P.S. - Right now our government + our big businesses ARE the source for a fair amount of the evil being done on this planet.

              I'm just Double Tapped the hell out.

              by pajoly on Tue Sep 17, 2013 at 08:41:29 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Greenwald is part of that small fraction (0+ / 0-)

                So is Assange.  And so is Ron Paul.

                You're welcome to stand with them.

                I still stand with the American government, warts and all.  I'll work to repair it from within (elections, finding better, more liberal, and bolder democratic candidates).  

                You can try to burn the whole thing down.

          •  I'd Hate To Be Winston's Mom... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Richard Lyon

            ...when he responded to the classic "Would you jump off a cliff if your friends did it?" question with "Umm... I guess so."

            On the Internet, nobody knows if you're a dog... but everybody knows if you're a jackass.

            by stevemb on Tue Sep 17, 2013 at 05:15:51 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Oh Please! (8+ / 0-)

          As if we have never interfered with governments in South America?  Of course, we have never been behind any
          counter- revolutions to "protect" American interests.  Have you never heard about the Chicago Boys in Chile?

          "Since when did obeying corporate power become patriotic." Going the Distance

          by Going the Distance on Tue Sep 17, 2013 at 01:09:54 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Snowden has already proven himself a hero (14+ / 0-)

          by provoking the debate in this country that he has, at considerable risk and inconvenience to himself.

          By the way, what's that about "NSA spy names"?  The NSA doesn't have "spies".  It does signals intelligence and communications security through technical means.  It has civilian employees and military personnel who work in offices.  (I ought to know.  I worked in military signals intelligence for many years.)

          The influence of the [executive] has increased, is increasing, and ought to be diminished.

          by lysias on Tue Sep 17, 2013 at 01:13:36 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  The Sandyhook shooter provoked a debate about guns (0+ / 0-)

            That doesn't make the Sandyhook shooter a "hero."

            Not conflating Snowden with that guy, only pointing out that saying someone provoked a debate doesn't inherently earn them "hero "points.

            You're correct, I meant a CIA spy list that Snowden stole (and Greenwald has a copy of).  This was confirmed yesterday in an interview Greenwald did with Chinese television.

            I fail to see how this makes Snowden a hero of Constitutional protections.  More like a radical with an axe to grind against the US government.

        •  TEH NSA SPIEZ ON FOREIGN GOVAMINTS! (9+ / 0-)

          If everyone were as stupid as you make them out to be, they might actually agree with you.  But since nearly no one is that stupid, nearly no one agrees with you.  

          Belittling and insulting people rarely yields positive results.  

          Incidentally, the director of national intelligence said that the Snowden leaks have spurred a necessary debate in the US, one that needs to take place.  Now that he is part of the "Snowden/Greenwald movement", perhaps you should  consider joining?

          •  From the very beginning (8+ / 0-)

            Belittling and killing the messenger have been the only means they've ever had available to them in their effort to defend this crap.




            Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ J. Garcia

            by DeadHead on Tue Sep 17, 2013 at 02:55:43 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Spurring a debate =/= "hero" (0+ / 0-)

            Yes, Snowden helped to rekindle a critical debate over NSA oversight.  

            However, this debate also happened in 2006 when the Bush FISA lawbreaking story first broke.

            So it's a debate that has been ongoing for a number of years now.  Crediting Snowden/Greenwald's reckless leak patten and long list of distortions, innuendo, and implication of crimes (without actual evidence of crimes) has been a national disgrace.

            This is a debate that was long overdue.

            We're also having it led by a clown show.  

            Far easier for the undecideds to dismiss NSA reform when the leading advocates are an unemployed lawyer in Brazil who never did a new story before this and a 30 year old running around in Russia with a former KGB agent as his lawyer.

            •  Perhaps you are focusing on the wrong people ... (6+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              T100R, Nailbanger, stevemb, DeadHead, DRo, elwior

              This guy, for example, does not strike me as a clown show type:

              http://www.theguardian.com/...

              (Yochai Benkler is a law professor and director of the Berkman Center for Internet & Society at Harvard University.)

              Read some history.  You'll never get knights on white horses to change anything or rock the boat enough to make a difference.  

              Do you think our Miranda rights are named after a civil rights hero, or a criminal?  

              •  all acts of civil disobedience are not heroic (0+ / 0-)

                Have you met the Tea Party?  The dipshits bringing assault rifles to discussions of gun control?

                Each see themselves as patriots rebelling against the system to fight for the "freedoms."

                Snowden/Greenwald see themselves as heroic Woodward and Bernstein figures.

                As to reading history, Yochai Benkler may be the kind of advocate we need right now, but he's not the face of the movement.

                And like it or not, the face of the movement helps to define the movement.  Just like Occupy Wall Street was smeared when a few knuckleheads started a riot, the NSA debate will be forever tainted by how many documents Snowden leaks, and how damaging they are.

                If Assange decides to dump the whole thing, en masse, then the damage to the cause you and I both seek -- reforming NSA, will be irreparable.

                •  I think your views on this will change ... (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  jds1978, koNko, stevemb

                  as Snowden and Greenwald fade further into the background, unless you remain so fixated on them that you cannot see the doughnut, only the hole.

                •  Only a small minority including WinSmith (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  stevemb

                  Find this information so tainted.

                  Far more see it as the smoking guns that are evidence of crimes, if you will.

                  I'd really suggest you step back from your strongly held partisan opinion on this and try to look at it more objectively including from the perspective of the Rest of the World, which is important to the USA. That is the subject of this diary.

                  You are the one concerned with the personalities of Snowdon and Greenwald. The world has pretty much moved on to the facts of the cases and the issues they raise.

                  Even the White House is pretty silent on Snowden/Greenwald these days, because the issues are bigger than them.

            •  Yes, we've been disgraced as a nation (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              elwior, koNko, stevemb

              But you're confused as to the reasons for it.

              You think it's the process that lead to the leaks, not the substance of the leaks themselves, that caused it.

              With each passing day, more and more people are realizing who's deserving of shame and who isn't.

              And it's not who you think it is. Unfortunately for you and the other anti-Greenwald zealots, you're in the minority.

              But at least no one can say you've been inconsistent.




              Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ J. Garcia

              by DeadHead on Tue Sep 17, 2013 at 05:56:28 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Snowden... (6+ / 0-)
          What a hero.
          Indeed he is!  And Greenwald, too!

          all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

          by 4kedtongue on Tue Sep 17, 2013 at 02:11:35 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  If burning down the government (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          DeadHead, 3goldens, stevemb, elwior

          is the only way to follow the constitution, WinSmith, then we should do it. This is not America, now.

          A true craftsman will meticulously construct the apparatus of his own demise.

          by onionjim on Tue Sep 17, 2013 at 02:39:00 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  No country pretends piety like the U.S.A. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          stevemb

          ergo, we are the hypocrites.

          I'm just Double Tapped the hell out.

          by pajoly on Tue Sep 17, 2013 at 06:47:55 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Dude ... (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          elwior, run around, stevemb

          You really fail to grasp the fact the US has enjoyed a privileged position that gave it the capability to spy on the world in an unprecedented fashion and has abused the hell out of it.

          Your arguments might sound reasonable to a few people on Daily Kos, but to people outside the US it is going to fall on def ears because we can't assert Constitutional rights we haven't got and we don't think it OK for the USA to vacuum up our data if we can avoid it.

          Your opinion as an American only goes so far with Brazilians, Chinese and Germans. Understand the limitations you face.

          •  "abuse" compared to what? (0+ / 0-)

            The USA is the most benevolent empire in world history.

            Only a total inoramus of history could think that the USA bugging a few phones in foreign countries is some eggregous abuse of power on the world stage.

            Have you met the former Soviet Union?  Nazi Germany?  

            Hell, have you met the USA in the 1950s?  1960s?  1970s?  2000s?

            Under Obama we're seeing the most restrained use of NSA power in modern history.  The irony is the Greenwald/Snowden fan boys can't see what the documents actually tell us.  Not only are Constitutional protections in force, but classified documents are maintaining them.

            Think J. Edgar played this way?

            Think Dick Cheney did?

            •  Wow, that's a keeper. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              run around, stevemb

              I particularly like this part:

              Under Obama we're seeing the most restrained use of NSA power in modern history.  The irony is the Greenwald/Snowden fan boys can't see what the documents actually tell us.  Not only are Constitutional protections in force, but classified documents are maintaining them.

              Think J. Edgar played this way?

              Think Dick Cheney did?

              Obama has done Cheney one better. He has doubled-down and  institutionalized the system, and prosecuted more whistle-blowers than all previous presidents combined.

              Really, either you lack information or I want to know what you are smoking because the NSA and FBI have unprecedented resources and power.

              And, Dude, YOU are the one obsessing over Greenwald and Snowden. The rest of us are discussing the subject of the diary.

              Only a total inoramus of history could think that the USA bugging a few phones in foreign countries is some eggregous abuse of power on the world stage.

              Have you met the former Soviet Union?  Nazi Germany?  

              Wow. Just Wow. I was wondering how Goodwin's Law was going to apply here and you have answered that. I'm impressed.
              •  ok then (0+ / 0-)

                So apparently no mentions of Nazi Germany in a diary discussing the state's ability to perform covert surveillance on  foreign countries.

                As to "institutionalizing," Obama added court oversight where none existed.  So yeah, I suppose conforming the NSA to the Constitution is "institutionalizing" or something.

                Apparently, for you, United States history began in 2000.

                Perhaps you'd like to go a bit further back before shrieking about Obama being a fascimacomunazi.

                •  Time For Your History Lesson (0+ / 0-)

                  On the Internet, nobody knows if you're a dog... but everybody knows if you're a jackass.

                  by stevemb on Wed Sep 18, 2013 at 06:46:35 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  warrants are still required (0+ / 0-)

                    All this smoke in search of a fire and the Greenwald crowd still can't show any warrantless actions.  Accumulating data through digital means still doesn't change the fact that the NSA must get warrants from the FISA court to pursue specific targets.

                    Until I see any evidence of lawbrekaing other than Snowden, this is a whole lot of specifics about a system that still maintains warrants, something Bush never did.

                    •  Nice Try (0+ / 0-)
                      Until I see any evidence of lawbrekaing other than Snowden
                      No True Scotsman

                      No True Scotsman is an informal fallacy, an ad hoc attempt to retain an unreasoned assertion. When faced with a counterexample to a universal claim, rather than denying the counterexample or rejecting the original universal claim, this fallacy modifies the subject of the assertion to exclude the specific case or others like it by rhetoric, without reference to any specific objective rule.....

                      On the Internet, nobody knows if you're a dog... but everybody knows if you're a jackass.

                      by stevemb on Wed Sep 18, 2013 at 09:39:58 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

      •  I wouldn't. There's enough drones (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Richard Lyon, elwior

        surveilling us as it is.

        The party of Kennedy is also the party of Eastland. The party of Javits is also the party of Goldwater. Where is our party? Where is the political party that will make it unnecessary to march on Washington?

        by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Sep 17, 2013 at 02:45:10 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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