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View Diary: Frank Rich "State-Sponsored Terrorism!" (197 comments)

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  •  I was thinking about quoting a passage from (0+ / 0-)

    a book that has nothing to do with the issue at hand.......preferably something about pigs and the collapse of society, but I figured I'd let you handle such brilliant observations.

    Boy, don't I feel silly.

    Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

    by FrankRose on Thu Sep 19, 2013 at 03:40:02 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  There you go, that's the spirit. The pigs and (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JVolvo

      collapse of society was an analogy for pro gun folk who can't see that guns kill people, regardless of the data, science, ie reasoning, that shows that to be true. So, in the analogy, the society that can't see that pigs are destroying its society, double down on pigs and breed and raise more and more and more - get it? I'll spell it out - pigs = guns and collapse of society = gun deaths.

      Those who deserve neither, sacrifice peanut butter and chocolate.

      •  I am surrounded by people that own guns. (0+ / 0-)

        It really isn't scary.

        ........but then again, I'm also surrounded by pigs.
        Apparently, I'm totally fucked.

        Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

        by FrankRose on Thu Sep 19, 2013 at 04:48:04 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Well, that's true, but the point about the pigs (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JVolvo

          is that in that particular society, pigs were undermining its very existence. Here in modern American, we also have a lot of pigs, but they aren't threatening out existence - unless of course you consider their contribution to climate change, though I think cattle probably produce more methane than pigs because we as a country eat more beef that swine.

          Guns on the other hand ...

          According to the Centers for Disease Control Prevention, Division of Vital Statistics, there were 32,163 gun deaths in the U.S. in 2011 with an additional 73,883 non-fatal gun related injuries. That's just below the number of deaths in 2011 from breast cancer (39,9701), and significantly more than deaths from leukemia (21,7802). Would anyone argue that breast cancer and leukemia aren't public health issues? Of course not! So why are public policy makers denying that gun violence and gun deaths are?
          http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

          And I don't think its so much about being scared as it is about being dead.

          •  Yes, I've read it. (0+ / 0-)

            "And I don't think its so much about being scared as it is about being dead."
            I'm surrounded by people that own guns. Again, it really isn't that scary.

            Over half those cited deaths are due to suicide.
            If you think that owning a gun would lead to you, unwantingly, committing suicide, then don't own one.

            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

            by FrankRose on Thu Sep 19, 2013 at 05:54:36 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  How about those who don't own one but still (0+ / 0-)

              manage to use one to kill themselves?

              Again, not about being scare - more about going to the movies, mall, classroom, restaurant, church, etc., minding your own business and the a bullet ends you life. Also about the costs associated with all the gun deaths and shootings.

              Those who would sacrifice other's lives to compensate for their insecurities deserve to defeated.

              •  You claim that you 'aren't scared' (0+ / 0-)

                then you obsess over the highly unlikely chance of being shot & use that irrational fear to justify taking liberties away from innocent Americans.

                That is every bit as unreasonable as insisting on warrantless wiretaps because of terrorists.

                I am not scared. I will not infringe on the liberties of innocent people.

                Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                by FrankRose on Thu Sep 19, 2013 at 06:10:30 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I'm tired of watching and don't want to live in (0+ / 0-)

                  a country that accepts slaughter, after slaughter, after slaughter after slaughter and doesn't take the very obvious steps that need to be taken to reduce the occurrence of those slaughters. When I walk outside the house each day I am not scared I'm going to get shot but I know for a fact that 80 people in the United States will be shot each and everyday and mass shootings are happening every week.

                  So then you're going to support the Colorado Springs and Pueblo, Colorado state senate elections to remove the GOPers who are now in those seats who will try to pass legislation that will infringe on the liberties of innocent Americans? BTW, nice to see you're favorite line back in the shuffle - "I will not infringe on the liberties of innocent people." Love that one!

                  So, are you saying that your are so concerned that liberties will be taken away that you simply don't vote? I mean you must be incredibly conflicted on who to vote for and support - the GOPers how infringe on the right to reproductive freedom, the right to a living wage, the right to healthcare, the right to love and marry whomever your want and the Dems, who want you to go through a background check before you buy a gun.

                  You're a fraud Mr. Rose.

                  •  So you aren't scared AND you want to take (0+ / 0-)

                    liberties away from innocent people.
                    How authoritarian of you.

                    " I mean you must be incredibly conflicted on who to vote for and support"
                    Not at all. I will not support anyone that tries to take liberties away from innocent Americans. Non-negotiable.
                    Thus, if a Democrat in my district comes out strongly against AWB & magazine bans, then I will vote for him/her.
                    Otherwise, I will take the wife out for a lovely politics-free Tuesday evening.
                    I'm certain that the proceeding Wednesday I won't have to worry about this particular conundrum for at least another twenty years & I can get to work to fix the debacle your viewpoints caused.
                    You wanted it.
                    You got it.
                    You get to own it.
                    It's all yours.

                    "background check"
                    If the President hadn't have decided to propose his plan for a background check alongside a gun ban, I think that bill would have passed with a minimum of political fallout: However, it is understandably difficult to say that gun controllers don't want to ban guns when they push for a gun ban.

                    "You're a fraud"
                    I am a voter.
                    You may have forgotten that, but the party will not.

                    Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                    by FrankRose on Thu Sep 19, 2013 at 06:42:49 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  "I will not support anyone that tries to take (0+ / 0-)

                      liberties away from innocent Americans."

                      Show me some politicians you support and I'll show you some politicians who take people's liberties away.

                      You live in a delusional world - you're overstating the gun issue.

                      Of course, anyone can see if they post back and forth with you long enough, you're so called position isn't really a position at all. It's more of a confused guttural scream, like a kid having a toy taken away.

                      Those who would sacrifice pizza for calzone deserve neither.

                      •  It isn't? (0+ / 0-)

                        Huh. I've said gun and magazine bans are wrong because it takes liberties away from innocent people om response to the crimes of murderers.
                        Same reason I don't support warrantless wiretaps.

                        I've said gun & magazine bans cost the Democratic party voters & hence-elections.

                        "overstating the gun issue"
                        Tell that to Morse & Giron.

                        "delusional world"
                        A delusional world is one where you take liberties away from innocent Americans because you fear being murdered?

                        "like a kid having a toy taken away"
                        A condescending comment from someone that finds a Jared Diamond book to be sophisticated?
                        Adorable.

                        Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                        by FrankRose on Thu Sep 19, 2013 at 07:39:09 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

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