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View Diary: Ezra Is Terrified Because of His Framing (35 comments)

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  •  It's never a good thing (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    psyched

    to lie to the public even if it is a lie of omission. But second, what sense does it make to risk crashing the world economy to break the Republicans' resistance, when you can avoid the debt ceiling problem by filling the public purse with $60 Trillion making the debt ceiling instantly a dead letter?

    Also, you can break their resistance with the coin too, since once it becomes apparent that we have plenty of money to cover all the deficit spending we will need to meet our many problems including reducing inequality, creating full employment, and much else, then very heavy pressure will build up on the Republicans to pass programs that cost money. The deficit/debt problem has been their fig leaf for meanness. Once it's gone, they'll either become more open, or they will suffer a severe defeat in 2014. Minting the coin, and following that with an expansive 2014 campaign is the way to take back the Government.

    •  Minting such a coin will accomplish ... (0+ / 0-)

      only one thing ... making an utter laughingstock out of Democrats.  It certainly will not result in the utopian solution to all problems apparently envisioned because creditors will NEVER accept Monopoly Money as payment any more than the diarist would accept it as payment for personal salary.  The fact that the idea is even still being floated is embarrassing.

      "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

      by Neuroptimalian on Wed Sep 18, 2013 at 08:48:48 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  We accept monopoly money now (0+ / 0-)

        It's all been fiat since 1971. Don't you know that; or have you been asleep since then.

        In any case, why do you think it will make a laughing stock for Obama to have $60 T in the Treasury and never have to issue debt to deficit spend again? What's funny about that? No one will be laughing when he pays back $6.7 T the first week to the Fed and the Federal agencies holding debt.

        •  Uh huh, sure. (0+ / 0-)

          Minting a coin of any amount backed by nothing but air will not pay a single debt, especially a coin of such a ridiculously high amount.  How anyone can think otherwise is beyond perplexing.  Do you really think other countries would recognize such a thing as having any value whatsoever?  If so, give at least one example of when this was done successfully in the past.

          "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

          by Neuroptimalian on Thu Sep 19, 2013 at 10:17:08 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Lincoln's Greenbacks and (0+ / 0-)

            Money printing in the US during WW II. There were bonds sold. But only after we used money printing, and even after we began to sell bonds to drain off excess purchasing powers there wasn't a one-one match between bonds and deficit spending.

            Also, please note, I said that it's all been fiat since 1971. That means all our money has been backed by nothing other than thin air and the capacity of our economy to produce goods and services. In the United States that's all there is -- money backed by nothing. Grow-up! Face it! That's what we've got.

            Now, I think there are three main options about the debt. 1) Pay it off by running surpluses and ruin the economy because there will be no money for people to save and no excess of imports over exports for Americans to benefit from; 2) Pay it off with fiat money like PCs; or 3) let it ride, increasing somewhat each year and never worry about it. So, what is it you want to do?

            •  When our GDP reaches something ... (0+ / 0-)

              in the neighborhood of an EXTRA 60T, then we can talk about minting a coin with such a denomination.  

              "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

              by Neuroptimalian on Fri Sep 20, 2013 at 10:24:02 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  It's not a lie (0+ / 0-)

      Dropping a nuclear bomb on Syria is technically an option.  Not mentioning it is not a lie of omission.  The platinum coin strikes me as a silly option that I want no part of.  Default would be preferable.  

      It might hurt in the short run, but if we can't do things the normal way then the system is irreparably broken and I would see crashing the world economy as the best way to scrap the Constitution and start building a less dysfunctional system.

      •  Just because (0+ / 0-)

        your intuition tells you it's a silly option; doesn't mean that journalists who know about it and who know it is legal shouldn't mention it, and should hype the cul de sac we're now in. It also doesn't mean it's a silly option. Why do you think it's silly? What are your reasons, or are you just labeling something you don't like?

        As for "the normal way of doing things," that's just plain conservative BS, and completely rigid, and mal-adaptive. The Constitution allows the minting of those coins. The 1996 law gives that authority to the Secretary of the Treasury.

        So, why shouldn't the President use a legal option to adapt to a difficult situation? FDR did that all the time. He innovated, and innovated, and innovated until things got better. There's no reason why Obama shouldn't be doing the same thing.

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