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View Diary: I am Tired of the Taxpayers Paying For Food For Rich People (229 comments)

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  •  Does Joe Citizen incur entertaining expenses? (0+ / 0-)
    The blunt fact is that we were able to save a greater portion of our salary because we did not incur the entertaining expenses that Joe Citizen does for a comparative lifestyle.
    I mean, as far as I can tell, most of the entertaining expenses would be zero, since the events wouldn't happen. You are basically having these events for business reasons.
    •  Are people eating for business reasons? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      That is new.  

      •  No, they are eating IN THE RESTAURANTS (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        for business reasons.  

        If a business could not deduct any of the cost of taking clients or customers out for lunch to discuss business, the lunch business of virtually all of the nice restaurants (the kind that employ waiters, for example, and don't just have people order at a counter) would dry up at lunch.  Many of them would discontinue lunch time service and lay off some staff.  

        •  Do you have any evidence (4+ / 0-)
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          burlydee, Tonedevil, htowngenie, JerryNA

          that this happened after the 1986 and 1993 reductions?

          AFAIK, people still need to eat, no matter how much of their personal consumption can be deducted.

          Out with the gloomage - in with the plumage!

          by mikidee on Fri Sep 20, 2013 at 09:37:13 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I can't believe you can make this argument (5+ / 0-)

          with a straight face.  Last week meet me and my co-workers ate at a nice restaurant.  No one wrote off it as a tax break.  It turns out, that sometimes, people like to eat at nice restaurants.

          Are you really making the argument that everyone eating in Downtown Chicago, NY, LA etc. is on some type of business lunch?  That is silly. If I make 200k a year, I'm not going to stop eating at nice places because my company can't write it off as a tax break.  You're acting as if the only time people eat at nice restaurants is when their company foots the bill.  I'm bewildered anyone would take that argument seriously.  

          •  No, I'm not saying the ONLY time (0+ / 0-)

            what I am saying is that much of the regular business at "nice" restaurants in business areas are business lunches.  And those lunches will happen less often if they cost the business significantly more.  

        •  But (2+ / 0-)
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          burlydee, JerryNA

          If this business entertainment is so critical to the bottom line, Surely the business wouldn't stop doing them just because they weren't getting a tax cut, right?  So folks would still be in the expensive restaurants.

          Perhaps they could just take the costs out of their profits

    •  Events will still happen, deductible or not. (2+ / 0-)
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      night cat, JerryNA

      My husband is a purchaser for his company and he is taken out by sales teams (vendors) about twice a week.  That's twice a week he doesn't have to pay for his own food.  

      He makes his purchasing decisions based on sound business rules, not whether he got a free martini out of the deal.  In the meantime, because the sales team gets to deduct the entertainment, my husband enjoys a free meal on the tax payers twice a week.

      And that's not right or fair.  

      We are all in this together.

      by htowngenie on Fri Sep 20, 2013 at 12:25:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Joe Citizen doesn't get the dinner subsidy (2+ / 0-)
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      slothlax, JerryNA

      That was the point.

      Richie Rich throws an event.  He and his wife enjoy a $100 meal as part of the event.  They get to deduct $50 of the meal, which reduces their federal tax liability by about $15 (assuming a 30 percent marginal tax rate).  The $100 meal costs them $85.  (We are assuming the Rich's own the company, and it is an S corp or they file on Schedule C, so all of the profits flow through to them).

      Joe Citizen has the same meal.  No deduction.  The cost of the meal to Joe Citizen - the full $100.

      The Rich's then take that saved $15, and put it in their IRA or 401(k).  They got to save a greater portion of their salary because they did not incur the entertaining expenses the Joe Citizen would for a comparative lifestyle.

      Because the Rich's own the company, they can also manipulate the tax deferred retirement system.  That's how Mitt had a 401(k) worth a gazillion dollars.  If you own the company, there are ways to dramatically boost your annual contributions.

      •  A man and his wife go out to dinner? (1+ / 0-)
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        The requirements to deduct a portion of the costs of the dinner are that it be for a legitimate business reason and the business parties be documented.  

        If my husband's business vendor takes the two of us out to dinner, my portion is not deductible.  Now it may be that this situation flies under the radar, ie, fraud, but the law definitely prohibits the deductibility of spouse expenses.

        We are all in this together.

        by htowngenie on Fri Sep 20, 2013 at 03:07:16 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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