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View Diary: CNN: Pope Francis has changed NOTHING. That's why he's so important (248 comments)

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  •  Why should we give a shit? (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JesseCW, Old Sailor, corvo, blueoasis

    Because if we cherry-pick assiduously enough, we can put a glossy shine on just about any doctrine. Communism sounds great, too, in theory. Practice, not so much (and ironically, it was some of the early Church thinkers who gave the best explanation of why it wouldn't work).

    Broaden your question a bit. Why should we give a shit about religion at all? In the end, things happen because human beings make them happen. Marriage equality, for instance, wasn't advanced by a minatory voice from Heaven denouncing its opponents. It made progress because people decided that it was more just than prejudice.

    Postulating any sort of divinity or divine force at all, or invoking the supposedly holy of the distant past, is an insult to the people who make things happen. Show me God's signature on a petition if you want to argue with that.

    "They smash your face in, and say you were always ugly." (Solzhenitsyn)

    by sagesource on Sat Sep 21, 2013 at 10:09:28 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Well, (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MRA NY, Wee Mama, Jackson L Haveck

      I think the contribution of those motivated by nothing more than their faith have contributed far more to humanity than those motivated by some intellectual construct contrived at university coffee house. There are those like yourself who care more about intellectualisms and declarations, and then there are the doers and toilers inspired by what they read in the bible and feel in their hearts.

      So while you would love to engage, and I'm sure its fun for some, in some sort of discussion about the necessity of religion or free will, or the existence of divinity, or any of the crap that seems to consume the minds of atheists to no end, good Christians are for more concerned with people's broken hearts, everyday struggles, and yearning to be part of something greater than themselves. That's what Jesus was interested in, not theology.

      •  Eh. They've "accomplished" the murder of (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        corvo, blueoasis, Fishtroller01

        tens of millions in the name of the deities they worship. They've "accomplished" conning starving peasants out of nearly all they had in order to build ludicrous palaces.  

        They've "accomplished" multiple genocides of those who wouldn't fall for just the right set of fairy tales.

        Meanwhile, smallpox is gone, and it sure as fuck wasn't "faith" that did it.

        In the end, I don't really give a crap if people believe they have an imaginary friend in the sky - but if they believe that women are innately inferior, gays are "offending God", or that pedophiles who wear robes and collars ought to be hidden from civil authorities, I don't care what kind of bullshit they spout about "good works".

        Because, in the end, for institutional Religious bodies, charity is never anything but a means to recruit vulnerable and easily exploited people.

        "But the traitors will pretend / that it's gettin' near the end / when it's beginning" P. Ochs

        by JesseCW on Sat Sep 21, 2013 at 10:47:45 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Meh. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Jackson L Haveck

          I think I can count on my hands the number of atheists I've ever seen do anything except bitch about the religious. Then again, bitching is the liberal there's that.

          They're more consumed with religious doctrine than the folks in the pews.

          Of course, they're are some Christians who seem consumed with atheists for some reason. But they are a tiny few. Best to do what everyone else does: ignore them.

          •  Atheists don't wear uniforms (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            blueoasis, Fishtroller01

            We don't wear badges, or rings, or anything of that sort to tell other folks that we're atheists. And if you see someone doing charitable work, it's usually, in most circumstances, considered at least a little bit rude to ask them about their religious beliefs or lack thereof.

            So perhaps your anecdotal observations don't really tell the whole story, eh?

            Let us all have the strength to see the humanity in our enemies, and the courage to let them see the humanity in ourselves.

            by Nowhere Man on Sat Sep 21, 2013 at 12:06:21 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  You have not one iota of an idea (0+ / 0-)

            of the roles that atheists play in the community, as members and as workers in charity.  Have you even bothered to look up atheist charities?  

            What am I saying. Of course you haven't, because in your book, only religious people have morals-right?

            I'll tell why many people become atheists... because they read books like the bible and realized that most people are more moral than the gods portrayed in the texts.

            Ok- you can go back to your "ignoring them" mode now. But watch out at night. There are atheists everywhere!

        •  Nice to see what I just wrote above (0+ / 0-)

          isn't just my opinion.

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