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View Diary: Where Is The Dem Counter Offer?! (48 comments)

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  •  was 2011 a negotiation? of course it was. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    corvo, Justanothernyer, joanneleon

    This is all about who will get the blame if there's a default, and if the Dems aren't prepared to trade a rise in the minimum wage for more deficit reduction, the public will blame the DEMS and we lose 2014 big.

    There is no way in hell we can simply refuse to negotiate when publicly supported deficit reduction is on the table.  It would be political suicide.

    •  I don't see the public support for debt reduction. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      erratic, FloridaSNMOM, millwood, trumpeter

      It's smoke.

      Righteousness is a wide path. Self-righteousness is a bullhorn and a blindfold.

      by Murphoney on Mon Sep 23, 2013 at 07:40:14 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  In this poll 59% want debt reduction (0+ / 0-)
        59 percent of Americans want the government to make national debt reduction its top priority, even if it comes at the expense of kick-starting the economy. Only a third think the focus should be on stimulation.
        It's a 2 year old poll but I doubt the numbers are much different.
        •  a 2 year old poll??? ridiculous. (5+ / 0-)

          Use a coin -- it's more reliable.

          Righteousness is a wide path. Self-righteousness is a bullhorn and a blindfold.

          by Murphoney on Mon Sep 23, 2013 at 08:06:25 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It's higher now in this 2013 PPP poll (0+ / 0-)
            Currently, 72% say that reducing the budget deficit should be a top priority, up 19 points from four years ago.
            •  pollwatcher -- that's a PEW RESEARCH poll, not PPP (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              erratic, trumpeter

              and if you'd looked at these 'wishlist' multiple-response, answers by Party-Affiliation:

              http://www.people-press.org/...

              You'd see that the growth in deficit-mongering has been largely among Republicans, and that the "danger" to Dem Reps among their more-likely voters [Democrats and Independents] for prioritizing Social Responsibility Issues vis a vis Deficit Reduction is negligible.

              Public Support for deficit reduction, specifically, over all other priorities -- is smoke.

              Righteousness is a wide path. Self-righteousness is a bullhorn and a blindfold.

              by Murphoney on Mon Sep 23, 2013 at 08:46:47 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  67% D's 71% I's! (0+ / 0-)

                Yes, it's a Pew poll not PPP.

                You asked for proof that the public supported debt reduction.  This is about as bad as it gets.

                At the last minute, in the public eye, this is going to be the Democrats threatening default because they won't support debt reduction that is supported by 71% of the public!

                How in the world can we go into 2014 with that hanging over our heads?!

                •  you need to understand the question methodology. (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  trumpeter, erratic

                  These are not "PRIORITIES".

                  Asking people to tell you ALL of the things they think are "important" to them gives you a regurgitated list of current events.

                  It's an opportunity to "pick all of the above" without any prioritization necessary.

                  It's about the weakest question that can be used to generate a headline.

                  Without follow up and depth-analysis it's worse than useless, it's manipulative -- and you are falling for it.

                  Is is far from, as you say, "as bad as it gets".

                  Righteousness is a wide path. Self-righteousness is a bullhorn and a blindfold.

                  by Murphoney on Mon Sep 23, 2013 at 09:16:15 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  That's not the deficit. That's the sky falling. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  erratic

                  Righteousness is a wide path. Self-righteousness is a bullhorn and a blindfold.

                  by Murphoney on Mon Sep 23, 2013 at 09:39:22 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

    •  2011 was certainly a negotiation. (5+ / 0-)

      And everyone on the left, including the POTUS, regards allowing it to have become one as a mistake.

      "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

      by raptavio on Mon Sep 23, 2013 at 08:14:59 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  thats not a counteroffer, thats a cave-in (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      pollwatcher, Johnny Q

      Fuck the deficit, its a phoney issue.

      If Dems want more support,  they need to be offering more, like a higher minimum wage, higher benefits for SS.,  mediCare/Aid for all,  an infrastructure bill that creates millions of jobs for needed repairs/improvements. A tax on financial transactions  and really higher taxes on the wealthy.  THOSE are counteroffers  we want to see Republicans voting against.  Actual Democratic positions that speak truth to bullshit.

      don't always believe what you think

      by claude on Mon Sep 23, 2013 at 10:53:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I don't think I made this clear (0+ / 0-)

        I wanted to say, that when the Republicans offer debt reduction, we should have something like you suggested on the table.  Then we would give up our bargaining chip if they give up their debt reduction.  

        The Dems should put everything you've listed on the table at the beginning of the fight and make the Repugs compromise by giving US something rather than every compromise where we end up giving in to them.

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