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View Diary: The NSA could be tracking cell phone locations. Dianne Feinstein thinks that's okay. (59 comments)

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  •  Hard for me to get upset (0+ / 0-)

    People in America routinely grant permission to corporations like Facebook, LinkedIn, Google, and Apple to track their whereabouts, access their e-mail, track who they are calling and for how long, etc.

    People may not be aware that LinkedIn is being targeted by a class action lawsuit for accessing the e-mail accounts people had used to register with LinkedIn.

    LinkedIn did not deny doing this; their defense was that people had agreed to allow them this access in agreeing to the Terms of Service.

    I had a similar experience to one of the plaintiffs in the case--LinkedIn suggested a connection for me that happened to be someone I had a brief fling with years before joining LinkedIn. This person did not know my real name, has never worked at any company I worked for or with anyone I am connected to, and is not even in the same business or state I am in. I could not figure out how LinkedIn would know to connect me to this person--until I learned about the lawsuit. One of the plaintiffs said LinkedIn recommended connections to women he had not dated in years and had no contact with but had e-mails saved in the inbox of the e-mail he used to register. That is exactly true in my case, as well.

    Today, I went to LinkedIn to update my account and before I could access my account, I was asked to sign a new TOS. The new TOS grants LinkedIn the right to use any information you give them "directly or INDIRECTLY" in marketing or for any other purposes that they see fit now and forever (or, "in perpetuity," as they describe it). They say this includes any ideas or intellectual property--they say you cannot sue them for making use of it.

    So, if LinkedIn is accessing your e-mail account connected to your LinkedIn account, which they do not deny doing, they could use anything in your e-mail under this TOS for whatever they want.

    And how many people do you think are going to agree to that TOS and keep their LinkedIn accounts? Quite a few no doubt, including all these people outraged over the NSA actions.

    I'll get upset about the NSA when people stop letting Apple and Facebook and Google track where they are in real time and on the Internet, when they stop granting companies rights to their photos and words, when they stop accepting free little app games in exchange for letting the companies making them harvest information about all their incoming and outgoing calls and contacts, etc.

    People are getting upset about the government stealing information that they are voluntarily forfeiting every day. I hope everyone griping about the NSA in this thread has discontinued their G-mail (read about what Google defended its "right" to do in court recently--something about accessing people's unsecured wireless networks and capturing all their passwords), deleted their Facebook and LinkedIn accounts, and purged their iPhone of all its apps.

    Otherwise, you don't have any private information for the NSA to obtain, anyway.

    Proud Aspie mom of an LGBT kid and some Aspies.

    by CatM on Fri Sep 27, 2013 at 06:45:38 PM PDT

    •  let me know when... (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lysias, DeadHead, GreatLakeSailor, tb mare

      ....linked in can break down your door and put you in a cage then maybe your analogy would hold water.

      We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

      by delver rootnose on Fri Sep 27, 2013 at 07:21:22 PM PDT

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      •  Silly counterargument (0+ / 0-)

        First, as we all are all well aware, these companies people are giving their information to are handing it over to the government.

        Second, regardless of what information the government obtains through spying, if there is no suspicious or illegal activity, it is extremely unlikely that anyone will be breaking down your door and putting you in a cage.

        So, I can't say I'm that worried about it. Most of the information we know they are obtaining is not being used to investigate each individual. It is being used to identify patterns and then identify people possibly involved in illegal activity.

        At that point, they start obtaining even more personal information before they come and break down your door.

        Everyone who posts on Facebook or LinkedIn and all the other things I mentioned is, in fact, at high risk of having that private information used without their consent. Very few people the NSA spies on are at risk of having their doors broken down and being locked in a cage.

        It's just silly hyperbole meant to scare everyone.

        Innocent people are at much greater risk of being falsely accused and arrested from their local law enforcement or in sting operations than they are based on anything the NSA finds.

        I am far more concerned with the level of corporate ownership of our private information, which I think is far more sinister and puts far more people at much greater risk of unwanted intrusion.

        So, yeah, I still find it hard to reconcile people getting concerned with invasions of privacy who routinely authorize daily invasions of privacy.

        Proud Aspie mom of an LGBT kid and some Aspies.

        by CatM on Fri Sep 27, 2013 at 07:49:43 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  so your counter argument... (3+ / 0-)

          ...is

           'if you are not doing anything illegal then you don't have to worry about it'  or is it

          'since corporations are doing it we shouldn't worry that the government is doing it too us as well'

          Either are bull shit arguments as I can be concerned about corporations violating my privacy as well as the government.

          And since the government has enforcement power behind their spying I think my argument is certainly more relevant than your argument.

          We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

          by delver rootnose on Fri Sep 27, 2013 at 08:05:14 PM PDT

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          •  I don't find it a bullshit argument (0+ / 0-)

            First, what I said is that if you are not doing anything illegal, it is very unlikely that the scenario you suggested was the imminent result of government spying would come to pass. I stand by that--it is very unlikely that the government has the ability to sort through the vast amount of information collected to develop unfounded suspicions about someone who is not actually doing anything. You are unlikely to even come to their attention. And if you did come to their attention, yet were doing nothing, it is even more improbable your described scenario would be realized. Thus, I am not too worried about it.

            Second, I did not say people should not be concerned about it because corporations do it, too. I said I find it hard to get upset about it because  people are not doing anything to try to keep their information private and freely hand it over for a free app or so they can post about what they ate for dinner for their friends. I don't use Facebook, and I will not be using LinkedIn anymore because I genuinely do care about my privacy. And I had an Internet stalker for several years who managed to find all sorts of info about me whom I would not like to find me again because someone tagged me in a photo on Facebook or saw an email from him in my email box and recommended he connect with me.

            This fling I had did not know my real name or the town I lived in. He just had a Yahoo email address and a cell phone number that has since been changed. Thanks to LinkedIn accessing my Yahoo email, he now knows my real name, where I work, and possibly what town I live in. So, for me, that is an issue. I think the risk of him interfering in my life is relatively small, but it is probably greater than the risk of the government putting me in a cage.

            So, if we all want to get upset about our privacy being compromised in general, then I am happy to include NSA spying in my bag of outrage. But it seems silly to act like the government is a huge villain for taking what most are giving away.

            Proud Aspie mom of an LGBT kid and some Aspies.

            by CatM on Fri Sep 27, 2013 at 09:45:30 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I don't know ... (0+ / 0-)

              ......if I should call you Alfred E Neuman for your 'what me worry' attitude or the Borg for your 'resistance is futile attitude.'

              Either way it seems to me your outrage is selective.  If it is about the president or his policies the man can do no wrong.

              We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

              by delver rootnose on Sat Sep 28, 2013 at 09:40:35 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  The government can do a lot more damage (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      GreatLakeSailor, Creosote, tb mare

      to a person than these corporations can.

      Apparently you're incapable of seeing the difference between how the government might use amassed personal data and corporations tailoring ads to suit your personal tastes.




      Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ J. Garcia

      by DeadHead on Fri Sep 27, 2013 at 08:05:03 PM PDT

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      •  Just because I am not buying into the hype (0+ / 0-)

        that this is the worst thing absolutely ever does not mean I cannot imagine how the data could be used by the most unscrupulous, but the most unscrupulous are going to get their hands on the data no matter what laws get passed. And if you think the only thing corporations want to do with your personal info is target ads or that this is the only risk of harm, you are fooling yourself.

        I just cannot get upset about the government collecting all this data when it is pretty much the same data people are freely helping corporations collect. So, you trust corporations to behave with integrity more than the government? I certainly don't.

        If people collectively show they give a damn and want to do something to oppose corporations from claiming ownership and access rights to every bit of our private information in exchange for using their services, then I will join them in trying to prevent the government from having that access, too. Right now, it just seems like getting upset because you put naked pictures of yourself on the internet and a coworker saw them.

        People generally are doing nothing to try to safeguard their privacy. If it really matters, then maybe they should try to do something about it. Right now, it just sounds like right wing paranoia that the government is out to get everyone so we should all be very afraid that they are collecting all this data. It is so much data that it vastly limits its usefulness for examining the behaviors of an individual who has not come to attention for some other reason.

        Proud Aspie mom of an LGBT kid and some Aspies.

        by CatM on Fri Sep 27, 2013 at 09:31:27 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I think there are two things at work here. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          tb mare

          One is that our constitutional democracy is not impervious to corruption to the extent that our rights might be seriously abused by a character in the mold of Nixon or someone worse. In other words a tyrant taking over after being legally elected. The NSA would be the natural tool of a tyrant to intimidate and identify his "opposition", those who protest against his "reforms" of the state. So it is the potential of much greater harm to our civil liberties that is the issue here, the principles of privacy essential for democracy to survive.

          The second less drastic issue, is the erosion of civil liberties in the drip by drip method. Cut back on privacy a little here, restrict free assembly a little there.

          The NSA is a very powerful tool and in a democracy it can become the enemy of the people. Better to address these concerns before they mushroom into insurmountable forces beyond our control.

          The Fierce Urgency of Later

          by Faroutman on Fri Sep 27, 2013 at 11:13:06 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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