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View Diary: Kristol memo reveals conservative mindset (89 comments)

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  •  I am always amazed at the simplistic (26+ / 0-)

    grasp on reality evidenced by those regarded as "luminaries" on the right.

    For example, Kristol bewails a federal health care program as a "federal intrusion into and disruption of the American economy." Does he really believe that there is an "American economy" uninflected by federal government spending and the products of that spending? Can he really believe that policies that effect what is amusingly called "redistribution" are political but that policies that determine "distribution" are not? He has twirled himself into a dizzy free-market delirium that has never been anything but an abstraction.

    And what sort of understanding of democracy does it betoken to dismiss as "paternalistic experimentalism" policies that are of, by, and for the people? Sounds to me like that's how democracy is supposed to work. It would be paternalistic if we allowed minorities like the Koch brothers and the rest of their clique to subject us to their experimentalism.

    An ideology like conservatism requires epistemic closure. Anything not with it is against it. Hence we have a minority vanguard right making themselves enemies to the rest of us, even as they presume to know our minds and our own good better than ourselves.

    Good diary. Thanks.

    The GOP can't win on ideas. They can only win by lying, cheating, and stealing. So they do.

    by psnyder on Fri Sep 27, 2013 at 07:52:52 PM PDT

    •  I always wonder how much of this (14+ / 0-)

      Kristol — Mr. Always Wrong — actually believes, and how much of it is playing to his audience.

      The idea of "defending the middle class by restraining government" is ludicrous and hypocritical. Only the government can protect the middle class against the predations of big corporations and banks. Shrink government and you increase their power and systematically destroy the middle class. Bu I think Kristol is too locked in his little ideological prison to know what's going on in the real world.

      Ed FitzGerald for governor Of Ohio. Women's lives depend on it. http://www.edfitzgeraldforohio.com/

      by anastasia p on Fri Sep 27, 2013 at 09:36:40 PM PDT

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      •  Don't ignore the 3 crucial words in that quote. (8+ / 0-)

        Kristol said "Republican claims to" defend the middle class by restraining government.

        He knows that the idea of doing anything to benefit the middle class is only a "claim," made to get the support of the downtrodden, the suspicious and the gullible.

        That claim packed a lot of punch, though, because it carried the unspoken code: that government was out to destroy the middle class by making equals out of the undeserving lower class.

        (And that idea is one of the main persuasions the anti-ACA ads are using, today. "I like what I have and I want to keep it, and Obamacare will take it away." What will Obamacare take away? My superiority! My conviction that everything I have, I got by myself, by sheer hard work and force of character.)

        •  Of course, since the fed gov is the source of (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Gorette, psnyder, Bluefin, Matt Z

          our national currency, the dollar, it funds all our incomes.

          A fact of life that the right covers over with rhetoric of how the private sector funds the fed gov.  As though the private sector issues our national currency.

          If people fully realized that the Constitution granted a Public Monopoly on our currency, the right couldn't get away with their silly rhetoric of how markets should be free of the fed gov.  They're totally dependent on the fed gov providing markets with net financial assets, ie, final payments, ie, their income.

        •  No, only your employer or your insurance company (0+ / 0-)

          has that power.

          Ed FitzGerald for governor Of Ohio. Women's lives depend on it. http://www.edfitzgeraldforohio.com/

          by anastasia p on Sat Sep 28, 2013 at 09:42:40 AM PDT

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        •  The threat of downward mobility (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Bluefin, UnionMade

          is a favored cudgel of the right.

          The GOP can't win on ideas. They can only win by lying, cheating, and stealing. So they do.

          by psnyder on Sat Sep 28, 2013 at 11:15:05 AM PDT

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      •  No, they sincerly hate and fear democracy. (7+ / 0-)

        That is the heart of modern US 'conservativism':  They believe the market 'works' bc it ensures a minority (usually the same folks over time) own all but the table scraps, and anything that prevents that result is to be fears and condemned.  Thus, the middle class learning and using its political power to force results more favorable to it, and thus the large majority of citizens, is 'dependency' bc they will become 'dependent' on using their collective power, i.e., government, to prevent small minorities of all-but-hereditary wealthy from both controlling and reaping the benefits of civilizations.

        Re-write anything a US 'conservatives' says so that it reflects the above formulation and you will have the truth about the policies they propose and, pretty-much always, their results.

      •  At one time... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        psnyder

        I thought Billy Kristol was a funny guy...

        Then he started opening his mouth about politics and he just became pathetic...

        It must make a comedian very bitter when he loses about 1/2 of his audience over a joke....

        "Do you realize the responsibility I carry?
        I'm the only person standing between Richard Nixon and the White House."
        ~John F. Kennedy~

        -7.5,-5.8

        by Oldestsonofasailor on Sat Sep 28, 2013 at 06:00:15 AM PDT

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      •  Oh, I think they all believe it. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Bluefin

        Conservatives have a burning desire to get out from under the government.  Perhaps it was the fact that many were drafted to go to war and felt that was unfair, maybe it was something else.  The huge problem with their theory is that the problems facing this country are not being addressed by their ideology.  The only logical conclusion is that the conservative ptb have brainwashed people into believing gov is bad so that they can gain control of money and power.  The r's had both houses and the presidency during Bush for 6 years and no help came for the middle class.  That should in itself be proof of the goals of the conservatives.  I will tell you that every single conservative I speak to spouts off about the nanny state etc.  It drives them all crazy to think they still have to listen and obey someone.  I have known this for a long time and I try to ask them questions about how they would solve problems.  They only ever spout talking points, they never have statistics or facts to back anything up. When I throw some facts out there they retreat to the welfare cheats tirade.  I have given up and tell them that they are no fun to talk to because they repeat stupid talking points and never have an idea of their own.

        Everyone! Arms akimbo! 68351

        by tobendaro on Sat Sep 28, 2013 at 10:39:35 AM PDT

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    •  Exactly regarding distribution vs. re-distribution (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      psnyder

      Progressives need to combat this fallacy/confusion.  Unfortunately too many progressives fall into the same confusion:  But how do we pay for....... whatever.

      Easy:  Because the fed gov deficit spends to fund all our incomes.

      Too many Progressives believe, along with the Tea Party folk that the private sector funds fed gov spending.

    •  Well said! I like how you put it about Kochs. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      psnyder
      It would be paternalistic if we allowed minorities like the Koch brothers and the rest of their clique to subject us to their experimentalism.
      ALEC has been doing enough experimentation in the states like FL where I live, like Stand Your Ground, an experiment leading to deaths.

      "extreme concentration of income is incompatible with real democracy.... the truth is that the whole nature of our society is at stake." Paul Krugman

      by Gorette on Sat Sep 28, 2013 at 10:58:30 AM PDT

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      •  I live in FL, too. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Gorette

        I've had enough of their paternalistic experimentation.

        The GOP can't win on ideas. They can only win by lying, cheating, and stealing. So they do.

        by psnyder on Sat Sep 28, 2013 at 11:24:59 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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