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View Diary: ObamaCare. The End. (103 comments)

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  •  Actually, a lot of this is true, but so what? (4+ / 0-)

    Yes, Obama made a terrible mistake in pre-compromising the plan and adopting the Romney-esque approach in a misguided effort to get Republicans on board.

    Obama and the Democrats have been ineffectual in explaining and promoting the benefits of ACA.

    But you know what?  That's totally irrelevant at this point.  This is the law we have, and if it goes down, there won't be another healthcare law for a generation or more.  It's not perfect, but it's better than nothing, and it's better than the Joke plans the Republicans peddle, and we have to defend it full throatedly and do everything in our power to make it a success!  Because if we don't, not only will it be the end of any attempt to bring health care to the uninsured and to protect healthcare consumers from the abuses of the insurance companies -- it will empower the Republicans, make Obama irrelevant for the rest of his term, and probably lead to a Republican takeover of our government.  I think we can all agree that would be catastrophic.

    "[W]e shall see the reign of witches pass over . . . and the people, recovering their true spirit, restore their government to its true principles." Jefferson

    by RenMin on Sun Sep 29, 2013 at 12:06:33 PM PDT

    •  This diary is out in political fantasy land. (9+ / 0-)

      It just simply ignores political history and reality.

      Right man, right job and right time

      by Ianb007 on Sun Sep 29, 2013 at 12:38:21 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It simply states a point of view (0+ / 0-)

        most on this site cannot, will not, consider out of ideological convictions.

        Read Joe Firestones article and expose yourself outside the bubble. You don't have to agree. But this is not fantasy anymore now that October 1st, shutdown and political crisis is coming home to roost.

        NO CE/CW. NO UNION BUSTING

        by Aeolos on Sun Sep 29, 2013 at 01:34:50 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Coming Home To Roost? (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Ianb007, scribeboy, FiredUpInCA

          There is, in fact, every single likelihood that this entire spectacle, artificially created by domestic terrorists, will become one of, if not the very best things to happen for, and to America in a long time.

          President Obama will not budge, nor should he. The ACA cannot be defunded, and even simple minds should know this. So the ideological talking points are moot on their face. The shutdown of government over an ideological tenet which has absolutely NO basis in fact speaks to an entirely different problem and mindset.

          To artificially create even the possibility of economic collapse, by ANY sitting member of our elected government is treason. This is not something the President, or the Democratic party created, and there is no possible opportunity to prove otherwise.

          As for the political crisis? Yes, I agree. The Tea Party Terrorist train stops. Right here. Right now. The Republicans who have foisted themselves upon this particular petard (to name only one) are being seen as, and for what they truly are. That is shameful, and a true shame because our democracy badly needs opposing views on matters of critical importance to our citizens. Healthcare, poverty, joblessness and peaceable existence are NOT in that category.

          Perhaps once this empirically unnecessary clown show is escorted away from the adults, we can finally get some work done on behalf of, and in the best interests of the 99% of American people who have, as a collective group, recieved less than 5% of all revenue and income gains since 2007.

          Period. MY opinion.

          Nurse Kelley says my writing is brilliant and my soul is shiny - who am I to argue?
          Economic
          Left/Right: -7.75
          Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51

          by Bud Fields on Sun Sep 29, 2013 at 02:37:38 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You're talking treason. (0+ / 0-)

            That might be for another diary. Next to the one about Impeachment. Same difference.

            This is politics in the end trying to masquerade as some implicitly held market-based convictions on how to deliver health care to the nation. As if we were all convinced that the market place is God and if it isn't there is always bailouts and subsidies to keep the temple at the center of all our decisions about our national priorities.

            Once people begin to realize the only way out is a political solution, the quicker we can address the Health Care crisis.

            And I'm not talking pragmatic bipartisan rabbit holes.

            NO CE/CW. NO UNION BUSTING

            by Aeolos on Sun Sep 29, 2013 at 03:38:00 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Michael J. Sandel (0+ / 0-)

              has an excellent book just out which examines the idea that there are places that markets should not be. It's worth a read, or at least a listen to the discussion. I highly recommend it.

              Nurse Kelley says my writing is brilliant and my soul is shiny - who am I to argue?
              Economic
              Left/Right: -7.75
              Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51

              by Bud Fields on Mon Sep 30, 2013 at 02:46:50 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  The other myth this point engages is (0+ / 0-)

            about the inevitable negative consequence for the GOP in shutdown mode. Clinton weathered the shutdown in 1994 yes?
            Newt lost, right? But the GOP road high throughout the rest of the decade in terms of changing America's politics, consolidating and gerrymandering their control.

            If these scenarios are supposedly "bad" for public perception of the GOP to the exclusion of the Democrats, why then did the GOP consolidate so well in the years afterwards?

            NO CE/CW. NO UNION BUSTING

            by Aeolos on Sun Sep 29, 2013 at 06:53:47 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  There is a shutdown and political crisis (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Catte Nappe, annominous, FiredUpInCA

          because of the tea party.  Any improvement or healthcare plan including single payer etc would have been subject to the same type of rightwing shenanigans or even worst.

          Yes it's different point of view that has been expressed by many here since the whole HCR debate in 2009. Many here including myself favor a single payer.  This article rehashes the same old arguments that were around in 2009.

          I could only muster the strength to read the first half of the article.  It's pure fantasy politics. It's not based in reality.   It's the equivalent of a fantasy football coach believing he can coach the San Francisco 49ers.

          Any idiot can sit down and draw up their perfect healthcare reform plan and how it would be better than the ACA.  None of them would even come within 10% of implementing there plan.  This is pure masturbation on the part of Mr Firestone and yourself.

          Right man, right job and right time

          by Ianb007 on Sun Sep 29, 2013 at 02:41:41 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Even Obama favored single payer (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            FiredUpInCA

            He said that would be the way to go IF we were starting to design a system from a clean slate. Which of course we weren't.

            “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

            by Catte Nappe on Sun Sep 29, 2013 at 03:22:38 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Enough of the Tea Party excuse. (0+ / 0-)

            Ad infinitum here.
            Incredible after all these years posters can't come up with a little more subtle explanation of why our politics isn't working other than that boogie man.

            Yes this does rehash some of the very same arguments of 2009. Why? Because they designed this thing to hang fire for 4 years.
            Hoping we'd all forget in some kind of time vortex. Only as you notice with a whole lot of issues (like debt ceilings, CR, sequesters, shutdowns, financial crisis, a FED run economy and FED subsidized equity markets, and let's not forget mass unemployment at sustained levels) we're more caught in a time-loop and whistling past the graveyard just doesn't cut it anymore.

            NO CE/CW. NO UNION BUSTING

            by Aeolos on Sun Sep 29, 2013 at 03:46:08 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  You are living in a distorted reality. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              FiredUpInCA

              One where the Tea Party is simply an excuse.  Really?  If you can't understand the destructive impact that the Tea Party is having on the republican party much yet the country as a whole then I can't help you.

              In all the drivel you've posted you have yet to state a politically viable way forward towards a better healthcare system.  All you have done is bash Obama and the democrats and have excused the Tea Party of their obstructionism.  

              You just seem to have no grasp of political or historical reality.  Are you in Academia?

              Right man, right job and right time

              by Ianb007 on Sun Sep 29, 2013 at 04:00:14 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Single payer. Allow the Gov't to float a (0+ / 0-)

                competing plan. Or extend an original single payer plan called Medicaid.

                That simple really. Not rocket science. And inevitable after this plan ditches itself as unworkable marketwise, politically, and as a doomed Rube Goldberg compromise of fatal political cynicism.

                But this is what we got, right? So it must be what was meant by Health Care Reform.

                The Tea Party is nothing compared to what has been internalized inside the neoliberals driving the Democratic Party since the DLC and the Clinton Era. Nothing. Only no one here has the heart to see it here. We are so desensitized now to DiFi in the Senate defending mass surveillance, Bill Clinton waxing poetic at the UN, and Barack Obama chiding the public for not getting behind his plan to open a new front in the War on Terror by bombing Damascus and Droning Pakistani civilians.

                The Tea Party? Huh. Amash himself helped drive the anti-war movement in D.C. How strange is that? All those rally calls here and great gnashings  are turning dkos into a WailingWall over those terr'st tea baggers. It's addled you.

                NO CE/CW. NO UNION BUSTING

                by Aeolos on Sun Sep 29, 2013 at 07:10:44 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  Then basically you are concerned for (0+ / 0-)

      the rest of Obama's term and the Republican question.
      This then is not about Health Care Reform for you.

      Joe opens with exactly the boiler plate you open with:

      Many people, and especially Obama supporters, characterize the ACA (ObamaCare) as “just starting” or a “work in progress” and then go on to urge that the program will have “glitches,” needs to be “tweaked,” isn’t yet “fully implemented,” and so forth.
      That's it boiled down, isn't it. If it is don't expect much if ANY enthusiasm from non-believers or partisans in the general population who start shopping around come Tuesday.

      The We All Have To Be Full Throated To Make This Work business is actually the pure fantasy we can't afford to indulge in.

      NO CE/CW. NO UNION BUSTING

      by Aeolos on Sun Sep 29, 2013 at 01:42:43 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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