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View Diary: No menorahs at Hobby Lobby (335 comments)

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  •  Who gives a flying fuck? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    johnny wurster, denise b

    They are a private business.  They can sell or not sell whatever they want.  

    And a little perspective.  Jews are less than 2 percent of the country.  And they tend to be over-represented in major cities.  I just checked Hobby Lobby's website-none in New York City, Boston, Philadelphia, Chicago, Washington DC, or Miami.  So maybe Hobby Lobby doesn't think there is money to be made in stocking up on Hannakah decorations.  This bothers me not a wit.

    "Unrestricted immigration is a dangerous thing -- look at what happened to the Iroquois." Garrison Keillor

    by Spider Stumbled on Mon Sep 30, 2013 at 03:30:53 PM PDT

    •  This particular store is in one of those 'rare' (4+ / 0-)

      'over-representative' areas (I believe someone said above that the local population is about 1/3 jewish). If they want to do business here, they should pay attention to the potential customer base. Most national companies -- the ones that succeed, anyway -- vary their products regionally.

      Sounds to me like they've made a point of excluding certain holidays from their product mix. I'm sure you'll forgive me and my locally 'over-represented' family if we spend our money elsewhere.

      (Oh, and you meant 'whit'.)

    •  The 1 in 6 Jews in Monmouth (6+ / 0-)

      probably give a flying fuck.

      And as a Jewish person who used to live not so far from Monmouth, I can understand why.

      Every other business in the area recognizes the local demographic makeup. That's true throughout most of North Jersey and the NY 'burbs. This is quite intentional given their locale.

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      by mahakali overdrive on Mon Sep 30, 2013 at 05:37:58 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Why? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        VClib

        Seriously, why would anyone care about a store NOT selling something?  If you need that something, shop elsewhere.  If you don't need that something, what difference does it make whether they sell it or not?

        "Unrestricted immigration is a dangerous thing -- look at what happened to the Iroquois." Garrison Keillor

        by Spider Stumbled on Mon Sep 30, 2013 at 05:52:18 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Why did African-Americans care that (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mayim, Tonedevil, TiaRachel

          some lunch counters wouldn't serve them? Couldn't they just eat elsewhere? Those people?

          You're talking about a large number of the population there. This isn't 2%. It's more like one in five or one in six people.

          I suppose they could take their business elsewhere, and in fact, I'm sure they will. But the point is that this is clearly a personal slight to Jews in Monmouth given that they are a strong minority-majority in the area.

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          by mahakali overdrive on Mon Sep 30, 2013 at 05:55:37 PM PDT

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          •  because at the time (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            johnny wurster, VClib

            the options for African Americans were very limited and generally not the same quality as the options offered to whites.  They, generally, could not just "go somewhere else." That's what justified the Civil Rights laws -- to provide a group of people access to commerce, access that was being denied because of their race.  

            It's a little different when one place out of zillions doesn't sell something you want.  You have lots of options, many of which may be even better.  

            •  There was nowhere else to eat (4+ / 0-)

              but Woolworth's?

              Jewish people are a historically oppressed group in most parts of the world INCLUDING present-day America; anti-Semitism is in no short supply here. It was authored from very early on by Christian persecution. That is simply factual. It is also simply factual that Jewish-Christian relationships have continued to be deeply vexing. It is also simply a fact that Jews are a minority in most of the US whereas Christians are largely a hegemonic majority. As such, contemporary Christians have a moral obligation to treat contemporary Jewish people with a bit of care to avoid rehashing the issue of historical oppression, much of which is not even particularly historical at that.

              Refusing to sell things to "you people" becomes a lot more problematic than the simplistic vision you present, especially in a region where Jewish and Christian tensions are much HIGHER than in other areas of the Nation.

              It's like you think this isn't a deliberate slight. Or else you just don't seem to care that it is one. I won't presuppose what you believe is important one way or another, but I will not stand by someone lecturing about how essentially outright BIGOTRY amounts to mere consumer choice. And the usury laws were also about interest rates. And those African-Americans couldn't have brought a bag lunch to work, and it's just about where to shop?

              This shit isn't about where people shop. It's about everything but that, pretty much.

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              by mahakali overdrive on Mon Sep 30, 2013 at 06:53:01 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Hobby Lobby, as far as I know, is not (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                VClib

                refusing to sell things to Jewish people.  That would undoubtedly violate the civil rights laws.  If Hobby Lobby discriminated against people based on religion or ethnicity,I would be with you.  But Jewish people can certainly walk into Hobby Lobby and be treated just as a Christian customer would. If any store discriminated against Jewish people, I would be with you 100%.  

                Hobby Lobby is choosing not to stock certain things.  That does not violate anyone's civil rights.  Stores choose to stock, or not to stock, items all the time, for a variety of reasons.  The fact that the owner uses his own religion as a basis for deciding what to stock and what not to stock is not a violation of anyone's civil rights.  If a store owner choose not to stock any Menorahs because there were no Jews in the neighborhood and in years past he didn't sell any,  that would not be a violation of the rights of a Jewish person who was driving through on a long trip and decided to go into that store to see if they carried a Menorah.  The fact that a store owner uses his religious beliefs, rather than pure profits, to decide what to stock and what not to stock does not violate anyone's civil rights.   A store owner can decide not to stock a certain canned food item because he doesn't like the way the can looks.  He can certainly use any basis he wants for deciding what to stock and what not to stock.  Customers who do not like his choices should shop elsewhere.  

            •  Jesus Christ, this reasoning is stupid. (4+ / 0-)

              It was wrong to deny service to African Americans at Woolworths because their options were limited?  But it would have been just fine for Woolworth's to deny African Americans service, if there was a Newberry's across the street which did?

              This is why Libertarianism is so fuckwitted.

          •  You don't see the difference (0+ / 0-)

            between refusing to serve people and not carrying certain merchandise?

          •  Hobby Lobby isn't saying that Jews can't shop (0+ / 0-)

            there.  They just happen to not carry any items that were made for one particular holiday.  I doubt the Woolworth's in 1950s Alabama sold Hannakah items either....but that's not what pissed people off.

            "Unrestricted immigration is a dangerous thing -- look at what happened to the Iroquois." Garrison Keillor

            by Spider Stumbled on Tue Oct 01, 2013 at 08:49:00 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Not the same thing (0+ / 0-)

            This store isn't refusing to serve Jewish people, it's declining to stock and sell Jewish-themed items. A Jewish person can walk in there and buy anything they like, if they can find something that appeals to them. They're not being kicked out or denied service.

            There's no comparison to the Civil Rights experience of not serving black people at lunch counters in the South. What Hobby Lobby is doing is the equivalent of refusing to change the menu to cater to certain customers, whereas what these places were doing was refusing to let them eat there at all.

            Big, big difference.

            "Is there anybody listening? Is there anyone who sees what's going on? Read between the lines, criticize the words they're selling. Think for yourself, and feel the walls become sand beneath your feet." --Geoff Tate, Queensryche

            by DarthMeow504 on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 04:46:20 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Moreover, you are aware of the thousands (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          white blitz, mayim, pointilleux, TiaRachel

          of years of refusal to do trade with or serve Jews that some Christians have engaged in that may make this story have a bit more dimension to it, I would hope.

          Or are you unaware of that history? The history of those "you people" is pretty heavy.

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          by mahakali overdrive on Mon Sep 30, 2013 at 05:57:20 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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