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View Diary: It's now Democrats' turn to be pissed (243 comments)

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  •  Sorry to rain on the parade with a note of caution (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Buzzer, Betty Pinson, gustynpip, bryduck

    but what's going with the Repubs - and the Dems - is an exception to a fairly long lasting pattern.  The Repubs have been superb on messaging and propaganda for years.  Only quite lately after the extremists have taken over for a spell have they started to waver.  In short, what's going on may be a temporary aberration.  I wouldn't be claiming victory yet.  If it results in the House going Democratic or even more moderate (i.e., on the Repub side), then it would be time to celebrate.  Until then, I'm happy to see the tide changing, but with the understanding that tides wax and wane.  Hopefully, the period or frequency of the waxing and waning will be a prolonged one from here on out.  

    The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

    by accumbens on Tue Oct 01, 2013 at 09:16:21 AM PDT

    •  A lot of us on the "roxxer" side (5+ / 0-)

      have favored acting according to the aphorism, "Slow and steady wins the race." Play the long game, win step by step.

      Now is not the time for that game.

      The GOP has made itself very vulnerable with this reckless brinksmanship by some, overtly declared sabotage by others. This is the time to be all in. This is the time to assault with everything we have, every media channel that is available, every grassroots effort we have. The GOP has demonstrated its bad faith, its disregard for the people, its inability to give a tinker's damn about anything except hurting the President and his agenda; all else, including the economy of the entire world, be damned. And we need to make that our message, as Democrats, loud and clear, for the next thirteen months, and the following two years after that.

      The GOP's immediate annihilation as a viable national political party should be our minimum goal.

      Let's do it.

      I'm all in. Are you?

      "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

      by raptavio on Tue Oct 01, 2013 at 09:24:55 AM PDT

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      •  Don't get me wrong. I'm all for stepping on their (0+ / 0-)

        necks when they are down and heads on pikes.  It's about time.  All I'm saying is don't think this opportunity or a shift to the Repubs losing the PR game is permanent or even more than short-term.  Indeed, all the more reason to be ruthless.  And I also think the Dems will lose the stomach for it long before I do.

        The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

        by accumbens on Tue Oct 01, 2013 at 09:53:38 AM PDT

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        •  No they won't. (0+ / 0-)

          They've seen the price of appeasement. They no longer have the stomach for THAT.

          "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

          by raptavio on Tue Oct 01, 2013 at 11:13:29 AM PDT

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        •  I don't think that's accurate. Obama came into (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          raptavio, eps62

          office with a very specific goal, to change the political climate.  He has never believed the Republicans were good faith partners but they had to be outed to the general populace.  Undoing 45 years of propaganda is a slow process, it took great skill to achieve it in 5 years.  

          Don't forget the truest thing he said in 2008 run-(rough paraphrase) "I'm willing to listen to all ideas, to negotiate with anyone acting in good faith.  If I find you're not acting in good faith I will crush you."  This is the Crush You part of the program.  Forget chess or poker, talk to folks who play basketball with him.  He's formidable.  

          If we have his back, if we bust our asses in 2014 the Republican Party will be a minor mosquito for a long damn time.  Look hard at California.  They succeeded there until they failed so utterly they can't even be bothered to run in many districts. That's their future nationally, unless we huddle up and fight about purity, which is what our Libertarian "partners" are working hard to foment.

          I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

          by I love OCD on Tue Oct 01, 2013 at 11:31:29 AM PDT

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          •  Obama also wrote in the Audacity of Hope that he (0+ / 0-)

            thought Bush and Cheney were not bad people.  I'm not willing to give him credit for the meltdown of the Repubs.  If they've done it, they've done it to themselves.  Indeed, I think a good case could be made that his capitulations prolonged their reign of power and consolidated it in the 2010 elections.  

            The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

            by accumbens on Tue Oct 01, 2013 at 12:12:37 PM PDT

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            •  I'd direct you to read some of the focus (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              raptavio

              group data from the 2012 election.  It's an educational project, demonstrates the actual depth of misinformation ( political and factual) that's common right now.  

              Then ask yourself why no one on the right can effectively fall back on "Tax and Spend Democrats", "Strong on Defense", "Able to keep us safe", "Fiscally Responsible", or any of the Family Values type canards.  

              I would also suggest you rethink the "caving" stories and remember that Obama made the Republicans in Congress admit, more than once, that Tax Cuts for the Rich were a higher priority than a strong economy, affordable health care, infrastructure repair, equal rights for all citizens, more and better jobs, building a middle-class friendly economy, or elections that don't require UN observers to keep them honest, or paying the debt we owe our wounded warriors.

              They won in 2010 pretending their cuts to an effective stimulus hadn't happened, and promising Jobs! Jobs! Jobs!

              They lied, people are starting to get it.  That takes skill, given a media that parrots and expands on every lie they tell.

              I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

              by I love OCD on Tue Oct 01, 2013 at 01:46:47 PM PDT

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    •  We still have a lame duck session this year (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gypsytoo, accumbens, Zinman, milkbone

      Those are always dangerous for back room wheeling and dealing.  I'll feel more relief when this year is over and we haven't cut Social Security, doled out tax cuts for the wealthy or cut ACA.

      Then there's the whole problem with shipping more US jobs offshore via the TPP, now being negotiated in secret.

      There are still numerous ways for the remaining wheels to fall off the US economy.  But these developments make me cautiously optimistic.

      "The international world is wondering what happened to America's great heart and soul." Helen Thomas

      by Betty Pinson on Tue Oct 01, 2013 at 09:35:36 AM PDT

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      •  It's the 21st Century, we can't ignore (0+ / 0-)

        the realities of an international economic system unless we want to become China's call center.  

        Obama's working hard to build us a manufacturing/innovation based economy that fits the 21st Century, and that WILL include losing some kinds of jobs to emerging economies.  We'll also lose coal mining jobs, fast food counter jobs, oil drilling jobs, deep sea fishing jobs, cattle industry jobs as the climate changes.  

        We need to create jobs that fit new economic realities, and most of them will probably be in energy innovation, environmental clean-up, and information technology. None of that happens if we keep trying to create the post-WWII boom, with big daddy corporations paying well and offering good benefits.  That's gone.  

        I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

        by I love OCD on Tue Oct 01, 2013 at 11:43:44 AM PDT

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        •  Yes, that's gone and now the banksters and Wall (0+ / 0-)

          Streeters who caused the last meltdown are still running rampant.  Obama has done nothing to change that and has through his choice of economic advisors and cabinet members assured they will continue to do so.

          I imagine some Obama supporters are feeling good now that he's actually hanging tough on the shutdown and, presumably, the debt limit like he should have done before but didn't.  Just like his conversions at election time didn't absolve him of his prior behavior, he current conversion to a President willing to take a stand doesn't absolve him of what he's done previously.  Sure, it will be great if he continues in this way and talks about the Repubs being the problem instead of Congress being the problem like he used to do.  But I'll reserve my joy for a while.

          The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

          by accumbens on Tue Oct 01, 2013 at 12:18:22 PM PDT

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