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  •  Frankly, I have a lot more sympathy for (1+ / 0-)
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    newfie

    Tyendenaga (Joesph Brant), my late husband's distant relative in the Mohawk Nation and a great Canadian. Lincoln was a bit weaksauce, compared with the heroism of Brant, who, admittedly, lived in a different time.

    Interestingly, Lincoln doesn't have a day in the Prayerbook. But Brant does.

    The "Shot heard 'round the world" is now known as the "Pinochet Ricochet". --commonmass

    by commonmass on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 12:09:48 PM PDT

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    •  Didn't know (1+ / 0-)
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      commonmass

      your husband had Mohawk blood.  Getting back to Newfoundlanders - my grandfather came down as an iron worker.  It was Newfies and Mohawks who did some of the most dangerous work in the building of bridges and skyscrapers in Boston, NY and Philly.

      Different time indeed.  I think Lincoln may have proved different in different times.  That's definitely to his credit.  And Frederick Douglass grew to admire Lincoln who he said, treated him as an equal.  A less "weaksauce" Lincoln would likely have failed as would a more "weaksauce" Lincoln.  He played it right and shifted when the time was right. Of course, in my humble opinion.

      "You have attributed conditions to villainy that simply result from stupidity"

      by newfie on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 12:23:46 PM PDT

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      •  I probably was too harsh on Lincoln. (1+ / 0-)
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        RiveroftheWest

        I have a hard time admiring him, because he was weak on slavery until it hit him in the beak.

        Now, Tyendenaga, he was something quite altogether different. Like my late Mowhawk husband he was an Anglican, and a Freemason (unlike my late husband, he was also a Tory). But what I learned about what it meant to be a part of the Iriquois Nation! Because I got to be part of it. Still am, even by marriage.

        Gay, and English/Irish/Russian/Austro-Hungarian, the Mohawks were happy to have me. But what really meant a lot to me was learning the stories, and also learning about a history in North American which at least in the United States is not told or taught. I learned a lot, and I also learned about how we lost the War of 1812, which any Canadian and lots of First Nations folk will tell you about any chance they get.

        The "Shot heard 'round the world" is now known as the "Pinochet Ricochet". --commonmass

        by commonmass on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 12:33:28 PM PDT

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        •  Could have likely (1+ / 0-)
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          commonmass

          avoided it and much of the Revolution had we only gotten to the Quebecois first - well we sort of did but we didn't convince them that we would keep them whole with their French culture.  They throw in with the Americans and it would have ended sooner - and we would have a prety nice region we wouldn't need a passport to visit (or another nice region I should say).

          "You have attributed conditions to villainy that simply result from stupidity"

          by newfie on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 12:58:02 PM PDT

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        •  Oh and I think (1+ / 0-)
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          commonmass

          Lincoln's weakness was highly calculated.  And he ticked off a lot of folks besides Douglass.  But I think he truly was playing 12 dimensional chess.  He played his cards when they were most useful.

          "You have attributed conditions to villainy that simply result from stupidity"

          by newfie on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 01:00:19 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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