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View Diary: Breaking! It was about the Grand Bargain all along (858 comments)

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  •  I hereby put down 100 dollars (49+ / 0-)

    that the diarist is dead wrong.

    The 100 dollars will be put up to an appropriate charity, if I have a taker on the other side.

    I suggest DAV as an appropriate charity.

    "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

    by raptavio on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 04:00:54 PM PDT

    •  Come on, someone put dat GUAP up lol (15+ / 0-)

      Put that money where the keyboard is, mang. You really wanna believe the dubiously sourced scare diary, c'mon.

      "See? I'm not a racist! I have a black friend!"

      by TheHalfrican on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 04:10:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  You can't win (14+ / 0-)

      If Obama caves, you lose.

      If, as we've seen time and time again, Obama doesn't cave and wins the day we'll hear how he WANTED to cave but the Republicans screwed it up, or that the brave keyboard warriors on the left stopped him.

      But you still lose, because Obama winning just PROVES how evil and terrible and what a caver he is.

      When we stop putting leaders from the past up on pedestals and ignoring their flaws, we can start seeing our present leaders for what they really are.

      by PhillyJeff on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 06:00:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Fine. (9+ / 0-)

        If the "Grand Bargain" happens in the wake of this crisis, I lose.

        If it doesn't, the person taking the bet loses.

        But of course, nobody has the spine to back up their three-alarm fire warnings.

        "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

        by raptavio on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 06:23:03 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  What you haven't considered (6+ / 0-)

          is that there is no way I could afford $100 on a bet nor do I do bets of any substantial amount of money, ever. Only gentleperson's bets and I've already made one today, hours ago.

          I've been disabled for years, am just now getting some paid work again (first paid job in years) and I have two sons in college this year.

          Too bad that you never even thought that might be a possibility and immediately went to the macho assumption of cowardice, "no spine".  I had thought better of you.


          "Justice is a commodity"

          by joanneleon on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:04:25 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Spare the poutrage. (5+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            doroma, Lying eyes, duhban, Cedwyn, Deep Texan

            Also spare the "I had thought better of you" passive aggression for which you're so famous. That doesn't sell.

            You could always present a different wager for non-monetary value. Like, if the Grand Bargain negotiations fail to restart by, say, the end of the year, you'll post a diary with an unambiguous, explicit admission you didn't know what you were talking about when you wrote this one.

            "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

            by raptavio on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:14:25 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  What is it (3+ / 0-)

              with you that you feel the need to dominate like this and make people submit to your demands?  You demanded money, for me a lot of money, and laid down specific terms. It wasn't until you were called out on it after the macho braggings about your ability to put up $100 like it's nothing and how nobody was taking you up on it because they were such wimps with no spine, or perhaps you meant inferior in every way, intellectually, politically, fiscally.  If you didn't mean to come across that way, I'm telling you that you missed your mark, big time, because that's exactly how it came across.

              Why should I agree to your demands about doing anything?  I don't feel the need to prove anything to you and why would I? That's absurd.  I don't need to live up to your impulsively concocted standards or whatever it is you're trying to do.

              Why not just do what most people do? State your case.  Tell us what you think. Give us some analysis.  Disagree. Debate. Whatever.

              And as for the passive aggressive accusations and the constant insults, seriously, just stuff it.  You clearly don't even know what the term means or don't know how to recognize it in people. I meant what I said and there was nothing passive or aggressive about that statement.  It was a simple observation.  My suggestion to you is to find someone else to wave your $100 bill in front of and maybe they'll be impressed or maybe they'll feel inferior in your presence, which I suspect would make you feel good. Or something.  I can't figure it out.


              "Justice is a commodity"

              by joanneleon on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 10:46:03 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I didn't demand a thing. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Deep Texan

                Again, spare the poutrage. I offered to place a bet, and my basis is this: I find your diary so utterly risible that I don't believe that even YOU believe what you wrote. Reverting to your usual defense of playing the beleaguered victim doesn't bolster your case. At all. Thus the bet, thus the dare.

                It's also so utterly risible that I find it nearly impossible to do what YOU demand, which is to give a reasoned analysis of this fact-free diary. It's like you're telling me to nail jelly to a tree. Your diary is based on two things: One, the premise that the President can never, ever ever be taken at face value on anything; and two, the tweets of some douchebag at the National Review Online. Your primary source is a right-wing neocon rag with a record of indifference to the truth. How'm I supposed to rebut, well, nothing?

                You don't have the luxury of covering a $100 bet; that's fine, I accept that, and gave you an alternative to show that you do indeed have confidence in your breathless hair-on-fire diary. Heck, give another one. But I am confiden you won't, because I think you know this diary is complete bunk.

                And I say your behavior is passive aggressive because it is passive aggressive. And you can stuff any additional poutrage about that. "I had thought better of you" indeed. Well suffice it to say I can't say the same to you; I already knew better.

                "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

                by raptavio on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 05:52:48 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  And by the way (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            doroma, Deep Texan

            please take none of the above as indifference to your disability and associated difficulties. I wish you no ill, and you should know that without me needing to say so explicitly, but just in case.

            "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

            by raptavio on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:17:19 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Bets are kind of stupid because (5+ / 0-)

              no one can make you pay over the internet.

              The point IMO is that there is a segment of the left that will not give Obama credit for anything.

              Look at the Syria situation. Obama basically did what most of the left wanted him to do. He took the action to congress, didn't bomb and got a diplomatic solution.

              How many "Obama got lucky, but he's still a terrible warmonger" diaries did I have to see reclisted?

              We don't have to agree on the sux/rox debate. That's fine. But I don't get the constant need to attack President Obama for things he hasn't even done yet (i.e. the constant "HE IS GOING TO CAVE" hair on fire outrage on the left) or to go out of our way to not give him credit when he succeeds ("HE WANTED TO BOMB SYRIA, HE JUST ACCIDENTALLY LUCKED INTO GETTING EVERYTHING HE WANTED WITHOUT BOMBING).

              When we stop putting leaders from the past up on pedestals and ignoring their flaws, we can start seeing our present leaders for what they really are.

              by PhillyJeff on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 09:46:10 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Yes, because YOU desperately need that for him (0+ / 0-)

                don't you?

                Do you think he fucking cares whether or not people on DailyKos given him credit for every single thing he does?

                Or that his feelings are hurt when someone acts like a meanie to his policy positions?

                He's the fucking president, dude. People are gonna give him shit about stuff he does that runs counter to what we expect out of a Democrat.

                But you go on and take this shit personal on his behalf. I'm sure he appreciates it.




                Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ J. Garcia

                by DeadHead on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 12:39:07 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Concern trolling for the president? (0+ / 0-)

                  Wonderful.

                  If bashing a Democratic president makes you happy, knock yourself out.

                  When we stop putting leaders from the past up on pedestals and ignoring their flaws, we can start seeing our present leaders for what they really are.

                  by PhillyJeff on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 11:46:31 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

            •  No, I shouldn't know (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              churchylafemme, DeadHead, gulfgal98

              I have one incident, though an important one, to go on. But I also have this and many other cases of insults, unprovoked.  I'm angry about the put down about the $100 and previous generous gestures don't wipe that out.  My kids don't even have new shoes for this school year yet because the ex is so far behind in child support and you actually think I'd put $100 into an ego bet with you?  And you insult me when I don't jump at it?  Yeah right.  


              "Justice is a commodity"

              by joanneleon on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 10:50:54 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  And you give insults (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Deep Texan

                as good as you get them, all while playing the victim and denying any lack of virtue on your part.

                But flinging pies on the Interwebs are a far cry from things which cause or do actual harm. You should know that.

                This is also why I don't rub my chronic illness, my kids' college tuition, the tragedies I've personally suffered thanks to Bush's wars, or anything else in anyone's face when they're throwing pies at me. A trick you should learn.

                "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

                by raptavio on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 06:00:44 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  I'll put another 20 on the same wager n/t (7+ / 0-)
    •  You're wagering there will be no cuts to SS? (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ZhenRen, cybrestrike, DeadHead, WheninRome

      I might take you up on that wager.  It certainly looks like there will be cuts.

      Of course, Social Security has nothing to do with deficits, but it does have everything to do with impoverishing millions of elderly Americans for years to come.

      "The international world is wondering what happened to America's great heart and soul." Helen Thomas

      by Betty Pinson on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 07:20:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Careful (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cybrestrike, DeadHead

        Some folks around here claim that cuts aren't really cuts. The "chained CPI isn't really a cut" nonsense, remember? You could win the bet but never collect.

        "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

        by ZhenRen on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 07:25:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah. (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        dmd76, doroma, duhban, Deep Texan

        Criteria are as follows:

        -This standoff directly leads to budget negotiations.
        -Those budget negotiations lead to a cut in SS.
        -The cut becomes law.
        -Chained CPI counts.

        You got $100 (or $120, if you take kalmoth's as well) to put down? What charity?

        "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

        by raptavio on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 07:42:19 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  My wager (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cybrestrike

          No cuts or changes to SS until he leaves office. The only acceptable change would be increases in SS and earlier retirement age.

          "The international world is wondering what happened to America's great heart and soul." Helen Thomas

          by Betty Pinson on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 07:52:15 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  "or changes?" (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Tony Situ, duhban, Deep Texan

            Yeah, nice try.

            This diary's about the so-called Grand Bargain and the claim that this shutdown is part of a joint gambit to trigger it. It's based in a load of hooey, and I'm putting my money down on that point.

            You're trying to sneak in wiggle room on technicalities and expanded criteria - and want three and a quarter years of a window to do it.

            No sale.

            "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

            by raptavio on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:00:40 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  You know what would be better than money? (6+ / 0-)

          The people on the losing side of the bet post a diary stating "We, the authors of this diary, have no fucking clue what motivates Obama, so anything we say regarding him and his administration should be taken with a huge grain of salt". A little accountability for the predictions made here would do wonders for the quality of the discourse.

          •  Heh. (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            dmd76, doroma, duhban, Deep Texan

            Nice.

            But when I make bets, I like a charity to benefit.

            I got nearly $400 donated to Wounded Warriors on the 2012 outcome - none of it my own money. Thank you, Conservative Bubble.

            "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

            by raptavio on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:01:44 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

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