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View Diary: Breaking! It was about the Grand Bargain all along (858 comments)

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  •  I don't dismiss anyone (12+ / 0-)

    I'm simply saying.... consider the source. When far left starts to quote and rely on far right, then we've entered the twilight zone.

    •  No, that's exactly (5+ / 0-)

      what you were doing.  A knee jerk argument that goes something like: dismiss all of this because it's from NRO.  A number of progressives and independents whose judgment I value have specifically recommended Costa, otherwise I would not have put much stock in what he said.  Also, when you're looking for inside information on the R leadership, a place like NRO is a good source. I see you're trying to backpedal now, so that's okay, at least admit what we can all read in your comments up there -- it sure does look like you were trying to discredit the diary using one lazy cheap argument, dismissing the source because of the news outlet.  And for the record, these days, I've learned that getting to know the individual journalist's reputation is much, much more valuable than judging the entire media organization. There are unreliable turds in some of the best left leaning media orgs and in some cases some decent ones in turdish right-wing ones. And a big mix in the middle.  At least own up.


      "Justice is a commodity"

      by joanneleon on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 08:28:37 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  knee jerk argument? (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kat68, duhban, doroma, Cedwyn, Deep Texan

        Joanne, can't you see how one could say the same about your diary? You made a pretty sensational, bold claim - Grand Bargain is Back on the Table. To support your claim, you posted 5 tweets; one liners, 4 from Costa alone - who works for the NRO. I'll say it again - one liners - no corroboration, no elaborating narrative from any of the two sources you used or any other source.

        In fact, I even did as you suggested... I googled for the latest about "grand bargain", and here's what I'm finding at the very top of the list:

        Grand Bargain Re-Emerges, Then Dies Again, Sam Stein

        A key point in Stein's article:

        The answer, it seemed, was that Boehner had tried to explore the viability of a big deal rather than a short-term continuing resolution and a subsequent debt-limit hike. Those conversations did not go far.

        "Boehner raised the idea" that House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) "could forge a grand bargain," said a Democratic source familiar with the meeting, which staff was prohibited from attending. Other attendees scoffed, the source added, having "heard that song and dance too many times before."
        So, contrary to your diary, it was Boehner offering up the Grand Bargain and everyone else scoffed !!

        How did Obama behave in the meeting? This is what Stein says:

        Republicans' appetite for a grand solution seemed greater than Democrats'. Two other Democratic sources familiar with the White House meeting independently noted Obama's firmness in the discussion, stressing that he would negotiate only outside the context of a debt limit or a government shutdown deal. In the past, the president has been the one in the room most willing to explore negotiations.
        Further, Costa was on Maddow tonight, after your tweets, and elaborated at length. He made very clear that it was Boehner who suggested a grand bargain, nobody else, very consistent with Stein's article above. Costa, went on to say that there are 40 Republicans who will oppose Boehner on any deal. He also spoke quite a bit about Paul Ryan working up a deal, also consistent with what Stein says in his article.

        Then, there's Costa's own article he posted at 6:40 PM EST, which says very much the same as above, and makes clear this is all Republicans talking amongst themselves. Not a word about Democrats wheeling and dealing. On the contrary, the one thing we have heard is what I bolded for you in Stein's piece. They scoffed.

        You posted a one-sided, virtually one-person account of a Grand Bargain in the works. To Costa's credit, his tweets never mentioned Democratic reaction, or Democratic complicitness. His article on NRO doesn't either.

        Will there be a grand bargain? There very well could be. But right now, we have no idea if there will be one. What we do know is the one thing that seems to have been said in the meeting from Stein's article - a far cry from what your diary implies. But right now, and when you wrote this diary, you don't know that.  You know Obama had been talking about a Tax Grand Bargain back in July/August dealing with Corporate taxes and restructured income rates, and deductions. That could very well be part of it.

        IMO, I believe Boehner suggested a grand bargain. I believe Dems scoffed because Boehner has zero credibility and zero power to negotiate a grand bargain. We also know that the Tea Party has been adamant about zero additional taxes. I don't think anyone sees them caving on that. They've mentioned negotiating on sequester. I can see Republicans wanting to back off on that because this coming year, DoD takes huge hits in the sequester. Based on that, I just don't see a grand bargain in the picture. I see this as a desperate move by Boehner and Ryan.

        Finally, you do realize I tipped and rec'ced your diary? I did get a bit lighthearted in my comments, but I never insulted you. So, I don't think I deserve some of the backhanded things you said in your comment above. Let's keep it clean.

        •  fcvaguy (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          churchylafemme, DeadHead, 2laneIA

          Both of Costa's articles are in the diary above.  Read the first couple paragraphs of the diary.  I said that Boehner brought the grand bargain back to the table. A lot of the things you're saying in this diary are things I already said.  

          I read Sam Stein's article.  The headline doesn't match up with the content at all.  He's not sure of anything. Read the last few paragraphs.  Plus, Stein has been bizarre lately, have you been following him?

          I didn't watch Costa on Maddow but I read his follow up tweets. I don't see that he has retracted anything that he said originally.

          In addition to those tweets, which tons of people are considering credible, by the way, and the Politico article, several other articles that I linked, there's three years of history as my source.  I was sharply focused on each and every budget/grand bargain/debt ceiling debacle.  I invested the time and read huge amounts of material and followed closely. That's my source.  There are plenty of others who did the same and who have been vigilant and we've noticed certain things happening that indicated what was going on.  And then the confirmation came through, that a grand bargain is on the table again. There's political bullshit wrapped around it, but anyone who was paying attention and is not steeped in denial knew this was coming with the convergence of the budget and debt ceiling this fall.

          Man, it's surprising how many Grand Bargain deniers there are around here, demanding that I put up money and all kinds of shit.  Wow.  

          Now I've got to go back to sleep.  Goodnight.


          "Justice is a commodity"

          by joanneleon on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 10:33:37 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Joanne (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            kj in missouri, Deep Texan

            The issue is that you spun an entire tale out of 4 tweets from a Republican to suggest/imply Democrats were selling out and buying into a grand bargain.

            A very key piece of information you completely ignored. I know you're aware of it because you said you read Stein's HuffPo piece - at the meeting, it was Boehner who tossed the "grand bargain" onto the table, and everyone else in the meeting scoffed at the idea, citing that they had been down that road before.

            That alone was very important. That said no Democrat as of last night was buying into a grand bargain. There very could well be one in the end, and even then, we won't know the shape of it. The definition of "grand bargain" has morphed over the past 2 years to the point that anyone will be able to claim a grand bargain was struck.

            You took a few small bits of information and ran with it without the full and complete story, which btw, we still don't know.

            Finally, we're all invested in this current sordid situation in very personal ways. 30 kids were turned away from cancer trials at NIH yesterday. A close friend who runs a small business in Northern Virginia phoned me this morning in tears to tell me she just had to furlough all 12 of her employees; all of them have families in bills to pay. Alot of us want to see this resolved beyond partisan reasons.

        •  P.S. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          churchylafemme, DeadHead, gulfgal98

          No, I hadn't realize that you tipped/rec'd. I assumed it was hostile because of the dismissal of the source. Tired and have been sick this week, so easy to misinterpret. My apologies.


          "Justice is a commodity"

          by joanneleon on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 10:35:19 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  The Grand Bargain never left the table. (0+ / 0-)

          Charlie Pierce this morning on The Sellouts:

          It was an early plane to Chicago for my monthly visit, so I was still a little sleepy, but did Senator Claire McCaskill -- that would be, Democratic Senator Claire McCaskill -- really sign off with the gang at MSNBC'S Morning Squint by telling them that John Boehner and the rest of the vandals should end the shutdown so that "we" could get back to "dealing with our national debt and cutting government spending," because I'm sure that's what she said, and I'd hate to think I drove that nail into my skull for nothing.

          As Scrooge surmised, these are merely the shadows of the things that may be, not the things that will be. But that's going to take some serious hog-wrasslin' by the actual Democratic liberals in the Congress because the poor banished children of Evan Bayh are still lurking around the party clubhouse, polishing their "centrist" credentials and waiting for a chance to demonstrate their bipartisanship by making the lives of poor people and old people harder. They may also be lurking around the White House, too, even in rooms with oval walks. I am hearing far too much today about how the Grand Bargain will get us out of the current crisis, and the crisis upcoming, both of which are the result of reckless vandalism on the part of the people with whom these particular Democrats plan to so grandly bargain. It is to weep.

          (Oh, and in the interest of demonstrating the blog's bipartisan cred, let's stipulate that Robert Costa of National Review Online has been kicking all kinds of ass on this story. If you're not reading him, you really don't know what the crazees are thinking.)

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