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View Diary: The Oceans are Dying: Oxygen is Depleting, Acidity Rising at Fastest Rate in 300,000,000 Years (215 comments)

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  •  We just covered the whole import export issue. (0+ / 0-)

    We export movies and software, and import electronic toys and oil.  Of course we produce less carbon per dollar of "product".

    YOUR proposal is that people who produce 1/10th as much carbon as you do need to make cuts before you do.

    How do you think that works?

    "But the traitors will pretend / that it's gettin' near the end / when it's beginning" P. Ochs

    by JesseCW on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 08:46:31 AM PDT

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    •  Your Proposal (0+ / 0-)

      Look, the movies and software consume a lot of carbon, as does the heating for the densely populated places. And the US exports a lot more than movies and software: ours is still the largest manufacturing economy in the world. And yes, we import a lot of oil, because we make that oil (as energy and chemicals/materials) into stuff we export. But the point you're making is that US production is overall more energy efficient, because we make a lot of movies and software. So we're more efficient.

      Also, I'm not proposing low-polluting foreigners make cuts before we do. In fact, my point is that the low-polluting foreigners are not relevant to this accounting, so they don't have to make any cuts, while we have to make a lot.

      But all that's theoretical abstractions. What do you propose we actually do to make a per capita accounting of carbon actually work? What actual applied practice based on per capita carbon accounting?

      "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

      by DocGonzo on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 09:51:46 AM PDT

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      •  tarriffs (0+ / 0-)

        They´ll come back. Nations will return to massive punitive carbon tarriffs against anyone not cutting down on carbon usage once climate change really gets going. This will not be left to the "individual consumer choices". This will devolve into economic warfare. The free trade bubble we live in at current, is not going to last.

        •  Tariffs (0+ / 0-)

          How does this tariff work? How does it charge countries per capita? The larger the exporter's population, the higher the tariff its imports to the US? That doesn't make sense.

          "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

          by DocGonzo on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 03:17:08 PM PDT

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        •  Yeah, free trade isn't such a compelling ideal (0+ / 0-)

          when the survival of the species is at stake.

          --------------------- “These are troubling times. Corporation are treated like people. People are treated like things. …And if we ever needed to vote, we sure do need to vote now.” -- Rev. Dr. William J. Barber

          by Fiona West on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 04:20:56 PM PDT

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