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View Diary: Journalist: August 21 Syria CW Attack likely a False Flag by Jihadist Rebels (120 comments)

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  •  And what makes it most clear to me is our (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    corvo, lotlizard, Johnny Q, PhilK, CIndyCasella

    government.  It lies, they lie.  They lied about Libya and they've lied about Syria from the start.  Kerry has lied his ass off trying to get another war like Libya.  So I don't trust a damn word he or Obama says about Syria.

    "It is easier to pass through the eye of a needle then it is to be an honest politician."

    by BigAlinWashSt on Sat Oct 05, 2013 at 10:05:00 AM PDT

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    •  As we all know the fog of war doesn't... (9+ / 0-)

      ...just appear out of nowhere. It is created by those who are involved, who gain advantages from obfuscation.

      But, while I have been aware that that high-level members of our government lie ever since Eisenhower claimed that the U.S. was not flying spy planes over the USSR—right up until the moment the Soviets put Francis Gary Powers in front of the cameras—I don't trust Russian diplomats on the matter of CW attacks either.

      If they have proof, let them present it. If they even have evidence, let them present it. So far, they have not done so. Just talk.

      Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

      by Meteor Blades on Sat Oct 05, 2013 at 10:11:32 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  They have presented evidence of previous (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        PhilK, CIndyCasella

        incidents to the UN, not sure about this latest report.  It appears the US hasn't presented all of it's evidence either.  I'm not saying I trust the Russians.  But I sure am not going to accept the US governments word for it like many on here seem to be and are accusing those of us who don't as crazy CTers.  That's out of line imo, but par for the course.  

        "It is easier to pass through the eye of a needle then it is to be an honest politician."

        by BigAlinWashSt on Sat Oct 05, 2013 at 10:24:42 AM PDT

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        •  At some point it is crazy CT, though. (6+ / 0-)

          All of the evidence in favor of the rebels doing it is political inference, e.g. "why would the government do such a thing?," while the evidence in favor of the government doing it is concrete, e.g. what the stuff was and where it came from.

          You know, I sometimes think if I could see, I'd be kicking a lot of ass. -Stevie Wonder at the Glastonbury Festival, 2010

          by Rich in PA on Sat Oct 05, 2013 at 12:22:10 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  "Crazy CT"? (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            SpecialKinFlag, Nada Lemming

            Why is it so difficult for people on this website to say simply, "That isn't compelling evidence." Why must they be so eager to accuse people of being "crazy" or "conspiracy theorists?"

            In fact, governments, including our own, have done some deceitful, even heinous, things in war zones. It's not impossible that a false flag could occur (in theory).  In this case, however, evidence supporting that is thin.

            Still, the journalist's views are interesting. Not enough, in my opinion, to counter what the UN has suggested. On the other hand, UN bodies have been known to issue reports and guidance that do not do justice to the facts (for example, in the area of food safety).

            Some sources are more credible than others, but hardly any are immune to political pressure.

        •  I don't see anything wrong with anybody raising... (5+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          sturunner, Lost and Found, elmo, doroma, vcmvo2

          ...questions, including questions about possible holes or misinterpretations in the OPCW report (which is the only one made public that has any transparent methodological rigor to it). I don't see anything wrong with assuming that Assad's foes may have acquired chemical arms themselves by theft or because somebody delivered them to them.

          What I do have a problem with is the discounting of hard evidence, and the OPCW report is hard evidence, while accepting mere speculation and claims by people who themselves have done no on the ground reporting and present only theories, nothing even approaching evidence, much less proof.

          Some links to the Russian presentations to the United Nations would be helpful.

          Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

          by Meteor Blades on Sat Oct 05, 2013 at 02:36:06 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  The UN will see evidence (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        BigAlinWashSt

        It puts the lotion on its skin

        by Nada Lemming on Sun Oct 06, 2013 at 10:07:15 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  If that was really true (0+ / 0-)
      Kerry has lied his ass off trying to get another war like Libya.
      then I don't see why a little thing like an offer to disarm would have stopped the Obama administration. It certainly didn't stop the Bush administration.

      They could easily have claimed the Russian/Syrian offer was not genuine, or wouldn't provide sufficient proof of destruction, etc.

      If the chemical weapons attack was genuinely being used as a pretext for another war...um, what's happened to the war?

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