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View Diary: Wilderness Versus Progress: Is There Really A Conflict? (18 comments)

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  •  Is there really a conflict between "progress" and (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ban nock, Kevskos, Eyesbright

    Wilderness?  Is that a trick question? No? Well then.

    Hell yes there's a conflict but I don't think it'll do any good to try to explain it to you,because if you don't see it then that's probably because you don't want to. But I will point out that the "wedge" that you speak of is because industry was (and still is) quite comfortable with total rape and destruction of natural areas in order to fatten their wallets. Without a strong environmental movement things would be even worse than they are.

    Just give me some truth. John Lennon

    by burnt out on Tue Oct 08, 2013 at 05:51:46 AM PDT

    •  It's not possible for industry to develop (0+ / 0-)

      wilderness anymore as it's off limits to development via established law.

      “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

      by ban nock on Tue Oct 08, 2013 at 06:31:23 AM PDT

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      •  If you are (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ban nock

        talking the few acres in official 'Wilderness' or National Parks you are correct, if you are talking the enormous areas under control of the BLM,  Forest Service or individual states it is open for business as it always has been.

        "In short, I was a racketeer for Capitalism" Marine Corp Brigadier General Smedley D. Butler

        by Kevskos on Tue Oct 08, 2013 at 07:14:49 AM PDT

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        •  recently MB posted a photo of a drill pad in WY (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Kevskos, Meteor Blades

          accompanying one of his posts. The pad was vastly different from what I was used to in WY 30 years ago. Instead of a flat space bull dozed with drainage ditches and a settling pond, the entire rig site itself was enclosed in berms as if it too were in a giant settling pond. Settling ponds themselves are no longer pumped out and covered over. They are pumped out then the clay lining is also removed and the plastic containment layer, refilled with soil, then top soil, then regraded to original, reseeded, and progress of regrowth checked regularly.

          Where I live in CO the Roan Plateau had strict restrictions as to # of sites, placement of roads, times of operation (for sensitive wildlife migration), and all manner of care. Not perfect, not the same as no drilling, but much different than it has always been. Of course we had a very pro conservation Attorney General that was famous for prosecuting infractions by extractors, his name was Salazar.

          I'll check this thread which I find interesting, after work.

          “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

          by ban nock on Tue Oct 08, 2013 at 07:40:42 AM PDT

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          •  CO does a really (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Meteor Blades

            good job.  Down here in AZ it is much more haphazard.  We have not had much natural gas so I cannot compare but we let miners off really easy, tallings can still be dumped pretty haphazardly.  Along the Colorado River things are a bit better because south of Reservoir Mohave we have California on the other side.

            I need to get to my ob of looking for a job.  Check back this evening as well.

            "In short, I was a racketeer for Capitalism" Marine Corp Brigadier General Smedley D. Butler

            by Kevskos on Tue Oct 08, 2013 at 08:14:56 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  I remember that time 30 and more years... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Kevskos

            ...ago in Wyoming and Colorado when such sites (and uranium mill sites, etc.) had no linings on settling ponds, etc. They've cleaned up considerably — because of government requirements — since then.

            Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

            by Meteor Blades on Tue Oct 08, 2013 at 12:02:14 PM PDT

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            •  Most of the (0+ / 0-)

              tough requirements come from the individual states Departments of Environmental Quality, there is no tough national standard.  That is why you see mountaintop removal in some states, like West Virginia, and much less in other states like Virginia.

              "In short, I was a racketeer for Capitalism" Marine Corp Brigadier General Smedley D. Butler

              by Kevskos on Tue Oct 08, 2013 at 06:32:48 PM PDT

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    •  reply to burnt out (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ban nock, Kevskos

      I didn't say there isn't.  I simply am pointing out that we should understand that our concern about nature follows from the degree to which our living standard developed because we let industry use the resources in the wilderness, not despite it.    

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