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View Diary: Paul Ryan adds Medicare and Medicaid to the ransom note (135 comments)

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  •  And by the way (22+ / 0-)
    I think the president might be willing to do this.
    Whatever you think of Paul Ryan, he's on the right track when he says that. The President alluded to as much the other day (I'll try to find the quote).

    That's why I will never stop calling the White House and leaving them messages (and tweeting and emailing, and any other way I can send a message), along with calls and faxes and emails to the pathetic jokers who "represent" my district and state. And you should too.

    The message is very simple:

    Social Security and Medicare OFF THE TABLE NOW, Mr. President.  

    This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

    by lunachickie on Wed Oct 09, 2013 at 01:37:12 PM PDT

    •  The President has always wanted to cut... (17+ / 0-)

      ...the Social Safety Net in some foolish attempt to get a Grand Bargain that "solves the deficit" and secures his legacy (Clinton had Welfare Reform, Obama wants Entitlement Reform). The neoliberals have wished for it for quite some time. In reality, they'll probably get what they want if left unchecked.

      This is the culmination of a plan by the Third Way/DLC/New Democrat/Neoliberal leadership of the party--in league with a triumvirate of geriatric sociopaths Bowles, Simpson, and Peterson along with a large cabal of global supernational neofeudal corporatists who have no problem with literally taking money from the poor, the vulnerable, the young, women, minorities the old, and the working class.

      A large number of Democrats in Congress will never vote for anything that cuts the Social Safety Net for good reason. It would cripple the Democratic Party for decades. So Obama has basically ignored the rank and file Dems and this whole show is another chapter of an extended negotiation with the GOP. If the Grand Bargain passes the way that the President and the GOP wants, nobody gets their hands dirty. It'll be the bipartisanship that George Will, Evan Bayh, Harold Ford Jr, and any other Centrist Village shill rubs one out to every night.

      For a little taste of what that means, follow the link:
      Why The Republicans Shut The Government Down and Threaten the Debt Ceiling

      So it's great that everyone in the Democratic Party is pointing out the obvious--that the Republicans are crazy. But those same people better watch their backs as their party leadership is set to screw them, and millions of other people over in the quest of following through with a thoroughly discredited austerity policy.

      The Grand Bargain must be stopped at all costs to protect the 99%.

      by cybrestrike on Wed Oct 09, 2013 at 02:42:21 PM PDT

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      •  Yes, well he'd better not or his popularity will (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        zaka1, cybrestrike

        plummet to the lowest of the low, like maybe 2%.

        "extreme concentration of income is incompatible with real democracy.... the truth is that the whole nature of our society is at stake." Paul Krugman

        by Gorette on Wed Oct 09, 2013 at 04:04:58 PM PDT

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        •  Agreed, (6+ / 0-)

          but while he has 2% popularity, a lot of us will be losing our homes and/or not eating or even heating our homes.  

          It's no joke if they cut the programs they will put more than half of their country in dire straits.  How can they think that because you get old or disabled everything in life after that is free?  Because no matter what you still have to have money to live on.  

          "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolution­ary act. " George Orwell

          by zaka1 on Wed Oct 09, 2013 at 04:20:06 PM PDT

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          •  They simply do not care if we all die. I had an (0+ / 0-)

            econ prof at UF tell me that to my face. He said they should cut SS etc. and I said what about all the poor old people (like me) who will die? He shrugged and said he was "draconian." This is true. This year at my niece's home, her neighbor. I really enjoyed it when I heard his five year old daughter told my sister that her dad was crazy. She's quite precocious in more ways than one.

            "extreme concentration of income is incompatible with real democracy.... the truth is that the whole nature of our society is at stake." Paul Krugman

            by Gorette on Fri Oct 11, 2013 at 12:29:32 PM PDT

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      •  Geriatric sociopaths Bowles, Simpson, Peterson (4+ / 0-)

        You nailed these vultures to the wall, cybrestrike.  They won't be happy till the vast flow of cash going out to millions and millions of Social Security recipients is redirected straight into Wall Street bank vaults to benefit Bowles, Simpson, Peterson and their buddies.

    •  But, the President won't (0+ / 0-)

      here is what the White House said today:


      , R-Ohio, told reporters Tuesday he was not drawing "lines in the sand." He sidestepped a question about whether he'd raise the debt limit and fund government for short periods by saying, "I'm not going to get into a whole lot of speculation."
       Hours later, Obama used a White House news conference to say he "absolutely" would negotiate with Republicans on "every item in the budget" if Congress first sent him short-term measures halting the shutdown and the extending the debt limit.

      "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolution­ary act. " George Orwell

      by zaka1 on Wed Oct 09, 2013 at 04:14:40 PM PDT

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      •  Ugh (5+ / 0-)

          Obama just can't help scratching that caving itch, can he?

          WHY would he want to be remembered as the President who gutted Social Security?   Why would anybody want that on future history textbooks?

          I just don't get that obsession of his.

        "Le ciel est bleu, l'enfer est rouge."

        by Buzzer on Wed Oct 09, 2013 at 04:33:32 PM PDT

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        •  Great Republican plan they get (0+ / 0-)

          to steal social security for their Wall Street buddies, cut all forms of healthcare and move Medicare to the private sector to screw us more and BLAME President Obama and the Democrats, which the MSM will promote. We will forever have these guys in office. Of course it doesn't help when our side caves and doesn't have their own demands....

        •  It isn't about him (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          coffejoe, solliges, librarisingnsf

          though, it is about the 47% of the American population that will go homeless, hungry, and everything else because not all of got pensions, unions were limited, women made less (so this will hurt women more, but we know Republicans hate women) and it is about the fact that most Americans even if they were able to save something from their average paycheck that it still won't be enough to to live out their years.

          And even if you did save money, there have been many more years of Wall Street crashes and years we had/have paid higher and higher healthcare rates prior to Obamacare.  Add the cost of living getting out of reach for many people and you can see how all this cutting will just destroy this country, especially when you add the people with student loan debt.

          "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolution­ary act. " George Orwell

          by zaka1 on Wed Oct 09, 2013 at 05:16:35 PM PDT

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        •  Negotiation Doesn't Mean Agreement (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          DarthMeow504, Terri, imnamerican

          Boehner is asking for negotiations in return for funding the government. But Boehner already reneged on a deal with Reid to fund the government without delaying/etc Obamacare.  He'd already reneged on the deal with Obama to negotiate a lot of cuts so the Sequester wouldn't happen, which was the terms under which Obama agreed to the sequester.

          So Obama would be crazy to negotiate now, since Boehner would obviously just renege. Obama is insisting Boehner fund the government in order to Obama to negotiate again. That's not a deal, it's a perfectly routine insistence on a show of good faith in a material act that always happens in business negotiations among adversaries when bad faith has been convincingly demonstrated.

          So Obama offers to negotiate after the government is reopened. If Boehner does it, then Obama hasn't committed to anything except to talk about what each side wants, and will give, and what flexibility there might be. Nothing more. Nothing conceded except a return to business as usual if Boehner returns first, having been the one who departed.

          And since Obama does want to negotiate, probably does have some common ground up his sleeve, he's happy to do that if that's what Boehner is demanding. But only if Boehner shows that he can uphold an agreement.

          Now, Obama very well might want to sacrifice Social Security, or some part of it (eg. CPI), in return for something else, even if it's just cutting the deficit. Or he might want more, like eliminating debt ceiling votes. Or he might not actually ever agree to any SS cuts, always asking too much that Boehner would never give (eg. increasing SS or Medicare for All). In fact, Obama might be so much stronger after Boehner crawls back off the ledge having gotten nothing but blame for the Shutdown (and blame from Teabaggers for ending it) that Obama's negotiations start with offering to end the Sequester in exchange for, say, naming a post office in Ohio after Boehner.

          But the point is that Obama offering negotiations with anything and everything on the table after Boehner reopens the government to Sequester levels does not indicate Obama is actually willing to give up anything specific, or anything at all.

          "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

          by DocGonzo on Wed Oct 09, 2013 at 08:40:38 PM PDT

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          •  He has no BUSINESS "negotiating" (0+ / 0-)

            with my future or yours. Not like that. Not with the last thing millions of us are counting on. No.

            No. Just NO. Sorry. No excuses. Can't make it any clearer.

            OFF THE TABLE.


            This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

            by lunachickie on Wed Oct 09, 2013 at 09:37:43 PM PDT

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            •  Unclear About Negotiation (0+ / 0-)

              If you can't understand that offering to negotiate doesn't give anything away, then it's a good thing that the only power you have is posting on a semi-anonymous political discussion site.

              "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

              by DocGonzo on Thu Oct 10, 2013 at 06:00:51 AM PDT

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              •  No, not at all (0+ / 0-)

                Sorry you can't understand this basic, simple concept, which is, I'm sure, why you only post on these semi-anonymous political discussion sites-to foist irrelevant, repetitive nonsense in the hopes that even one person is so stupid they'll take it at face value when they read it.

                The fact that "he isn't giving it away by just negotiating" with it is irrelevant , particularly to the point that Social Security and Medicare ARE NOT NEGOTIABLE INSTRUMENTS, PERIOD.

                Repeat after me:

                NON NEGOTIABLE
                Get it or don't.

                This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

                by lunachickie on Thu Oct 10, 2013 at 07:17:55 AM PDT

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                •  He Isn't Negotiating Social Security (0+ / 0-)

                  I'll explain it again: Saying "I'll negotiate anything if you repoen the government first" doesn't actually put anything on the table. All it does is try to get Boehner to reopen the government.

                  Obama isn't going to negotiate, say, the 14th Amendment either, or his birth certificate, or the gold standard, or any of the many things Boehner's crazy constituency might want negotiated. Saying he'll negotiate "anything" doesn't actually put anything on the table.

                  Therefore, by the simplest of logic, he hasn't put SS or Medicare on the table. He hasn't negotiated them, or made them negotiable.

                  Obama might in fact negotiate anything, depending on his own preference and agenda. But saying he'll negotiate anything doesn't mean he's changing those preferences or agenda. And if SS and Medicare are on his agenda, he's going to negotiate those anyway, regardles of whether he says he'll "negotiate anything" or says something else.

                  It's like saying to a tantrum-throwing child insisting on eating everything in the candy store "maybe later". It doesn't mean anything, except you're talking with them and waiting for later when the insanity has subsided some.

                  You can go on shrieking about SS and Medicare's non-negotiability. I got it the first time, and I agree that they're not. But attacking me for explaining simple rhetoric isn't protecting them. It's just adding you to the ranks of people who won't listen to reason.

                  I hope that's enough, because I'm done offering relevant, repetitive sense here.

                  "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

                  by DocGonzo on Thu Oct 10, 2013 at 08:24:12 AM PDT

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                  •  Look, it's not that you're not making yourself (0+ / 0-)

                    clear. You are. What you're "making clear" is obvious spin and clearly bullshit.

                    You prove it over and over, every time you cast an aspersion outward to whoever you're trying to convince of your nonsense. If you had even a HALF a leg to stand on with that shit, you wouldn't need to try to convey your superiority via veiled insults and other unnecessary prattle.

                    And not for nothin', but since you never have offered anything in the way of 'sense', the fact that you claim to be "done" is no big loss to the discussion.

                    This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

                    by lunachickie on Thu Oct 10, 2013 at 11:34:52 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

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