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View Diary: Debunking Ryan's zombie lie: Obamacare doesn't add to the deficit, it actually reduces it (50 comments)

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  •  Almost besides the point (6+ / 0-)

    Even if Obamacare did increase the deficit, a LOT, but was the only way under present political circumstances to extend health insurance and thus care to millions who'd otherwise go without, it would be 100% worth it, not just for moral reasons, although that would be tops on my list, but also for economic reasons, because it would eventually decrease the deficit due to lowered overall health care costs as people collectively became healthier because they had access to decent health care. Feedback loops work that way.

    We need to remember that every one of their talking points has a hidden trap because they work on multiple levels. Don't merely respond to one of their lies, anticipate the next several lies that your response to it will elicit and make sure that your response properly answers them too. Shut them up just as they're getting started and force them to come up with a better approach.

    "Reagan's dead, and he was a lousy president" -- Keith Olbermann 4/22/09

    by kovie on Thu Oct 10, 2013 at 09:39:58 AM PDT

    •  each of the lies (4+ / 0-)

      can be quickly debunked. and needs to be. most people don't pay attention to the details the way we do, so having quick responses helps.

      The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

      by Laurence Lewis on Thu Oct 10, 2013 at 09:54:04 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  But the flow of most TV "debates" (3+ / 0-)

        usually doesn't allow for followup responses, and followup lies are often left undebunked. This happens even on liberal shows like Rachel or Chris. Which is why I think it's important to shut them down in the first, usually only response. Very, very few pundits and experts are good at that. Almost none.

        "Reagan's dead, and he was a lousy president" -- Keith Olbermann 4/22/09

        by kovie on Thu Oct 10, 2013 at 09:57:09 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  and as a former competitive debater (4+ / 0-)

          i facepalm every time one of the lies is allowed to sit there, unrefuted. this one keeps coming up, and often is skipped over, when the response can be just one quick sentence.

          The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

          by Laurence Lewis on Thu Oct 10, 2013 at 10:01:23 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I'm not a trained debater (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Laurence Lewis

            but I'm fairly certain that I could take on most of these idiots in a real debate. Of course, such debates are rarely if ever allowed on TV, because they tend to bog down in details that our entertainment-focused media fears, and aren't scripted. It's quite shameful as I think there'd be an audience for them a lot bigger than they realize. I.e. Crossfire for people with brains.

            "Reagan's dead, and he was a lousy president" -- Keith Olbermann 4/22/09

            by kovie on Thu Oct 10, 2013 at 11:01:33 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  This is important, because much of the cost (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Rube Goldberg

      offset could theoretically be done without the actual new health insurance parts of the PPACA.  For example (and I am happy to be corrected if wrong), much of the cost offset comes from changing the way in which the feds pay for Medicare Advantage programs and other changes to  Medicare reimbursement.  Theoretically, you could do all of that without touching the existing insurance laws for the under 65 population.  

      So we have to have arguments related to "the right thing to do" - as well as arguments related to the positive effect on employer based insurance rates when they are not required to subsidize as much of the uninsured care that occurs in this country.

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