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View Diary: German Critic of NSA Denied Entry into the US (79 comments)

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  •  It's not the same thing at all. (1+ / 0-)
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    cryonaut

    No one is stopping you from leaving your house, at all. You are also an American citizen, and the subject of this diary is not.

    Again, you have no right or freedom of convenience, which is essentially what you're arguing for here by saying your rights or freedoms are somehow violated by a non-citizen being denied entry.

    While you dream of Utopia, we're here on Earth, getting things done.

    by GoGoGoEverton on Thu Oct 10, 2013 at 09:28:38 AM PDT

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    •  Not the Same Thing (0+ / 0-)

      The government is very obviously preventing Americans from associating with this foreign person because the association threatens the abusive government the foreigner criticizes.

      Preventing their entering the country is not a matter of "inconvenience". It specifically prevents this conference full of Americans from associating with this person.

      Look, it's obvious that you simply don't believe Americans should be free to talk with any foreigner who doesn't present an actual threat to Americans. I'm not going to convince you. But now your devaluation of our basic freedoms is obvious.

      I'm sure that this is just an extension of your absolute committment to defending any government abuse so long as it's Obama who's ultimately responsible.  Be calm and carry on.

      "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

      by DocGonzo on Thu Oct 10, 2013 at 11:17:36 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That's manure. (0+ / 0-)
        Look, it's obvious that you simply don't believe Americans should be free to talk with any foreigner who doesn't present an actual threat to Americans.
        Again, you can:

        1. go to Germany or wherever else outside the US to talk to them
        2. Talk to them via phone
        3. Talk to them via video chat
        4. Talk to them via email/text chat

        You've delved into ad-hom all over the place because you're beaten on the legal aspect of this, and you know it. You could've just let it be.

        While you dream of Utopia, we're here on Earth, getting things done.

        by GoGoGoEverton on Thu Oct 10, 2013 at 11:24:55 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Your Mother (0+ / 0-)

          You are not allowed to visit your mother anymore. She can visit you from Germany, talk on the phone, video chat, email.

          You're free as a bird!

          Of course you're not. I'm not "delving into ad hom" to prove the point. It's an obvious point to anyone not blinded by partisan or authoritarian ideology. But the larger point about what you respect, and what you'd  discard, is important.

          "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

          by DocGonzo on Thu Oct 10, 2013 at 12:01:03 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Your example is not the same. (0+ / 0-)

            In an appropriate comparison, your 'mother' (which hopefully is more important than a speaker at a conference) cannot visit you in the US. You may, however, visit her in Germany or anywhere else, and communicate with her freely using any other means.

            While you dream of Utopia, we're here on Earth, getting things done.

            by GoGoGoEverton on Thu Oct 10, 2013 at 01:01:26 PM PDT

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            •  Gotcha (0+ / 0-)

              No, I did that on purpose, to see if you're following. Now I've got you saying that you have freedom of association with your mother, even if she cannot visit you in the US on the grounds that she said something probably true about the NSA that it didn't like.

              Your mother. Cannot visit you. And you're free. Right?

              "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

              by DocGonzo on Thu Oct 10, 2013 at 08:07:39 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Right. (0+ / 0-)

                Your mother cannot visit you in the United States. It's a restriction on her personal freedom, not yours. For you, it's an inconvenience...but not a violation of your freedoms.

                While you dream of Utopia, we're here on Earth, getting things done.

                by GoGoGoEverton on Thu Oct 10, 2013 at 08:20:37 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

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