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View Diary: Republicans: While we're at it, let's just throw Social Security into the ransom note (150 comments)

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  •  They are trying... (8+ / 0-)

    To put the 'grand bargain' back on the table of these negotiations.  When Obama rejects it (hopefully), they can then say, "This is all stuff you have advocated in your 'grand bargain', why are you running away from it now?'

    “Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.” - John Steinbeck

    by RichM on Thu Oct 10, 2013 at 12:16:33 PM PDT

    •  Too bad (34+ / 0-)

      Mr. Obama has appeared all too willing to let them.

      This "comeback" to this notion, the one that says "He's only TALKING ABOUT IT, he's not actually DOING IT" is such intelligence-insulting crap. Really, the people who foist that BS out here--or anywhere else--need to just stop. It's weak and pathetic and tiresome.

      Social Security is not now, nor should it EVER be subject to any "negotiation" whatsofuckingEVER. Not until they allow people to opt out of it. It's MANDATORY for working wage earners, and as such, it is not to be touched. Particularly to play "political brinkmanship" with.

      HANDS OFF, people. That means you too, Mr. President.

      This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

      by lunachickie on Thu Oct 10, 2013 at 12:29:40 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The one and only way to discuss Social Security (43+ / 0-)

        is if you have a broad based representative selection of Congress focused entirely on improving the program.   And no, I'm not talking Simpson Bowles like committees of plutocrats trying to do dirty back room deals out of sight of the public.  The public has a right to know and the public has the right to provide input to any changes.

        Social Security and Medicare should NEVER be part of horsetrading on budgets, shutdowns, debt ceilings whatever.  I still have not forgiven Obama for treating it as such tangling CCPI as if seniors are carrots.

        Social Security is NOT a bargaining chip and it should NEVER be tossed on the table as if was it is.  

        •  Damn right! (23+ / 0-)

          Because the public pays into it!

          The public has a right to know and the public has the right to provide input to any changes.
          This Simpson-Bowles shit can be scrapped any time. If they're going to do something with it, they must improve it, not cut it.  No secret back-room committees needed for this. The "fix" is ridiculously easy. Bump that cap on earnings up to about 150-160k and watch what happens to its "solvency". That solves "the problem" we keep hearing about perfectly.

          That they think negotiating needs to happen in secret tells you everything you need to know about their "intent".

          This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

          by lunachickie on Thu Oct 10, 2013 at 01:30:39 PM PDT

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          •  Absolutely right, (13+ / 0-)

            if you've worked the funds have been taken out of your paycheck, week after week, month after month, year after year.  Only Welfare was means tested because it wasn't paid into by the worker him/or herself.  Plus employers also paid a percentage into the social security.

            This is driving me nuts.  Being disabled in this country has been like having a loaded gun to your head for the last twelve years.  Plus I'm getting old which to be honest I wish I was in my late 80s because then I probably wouldn't have to put up with this stupid BS for much longer.

            "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolution­ary act. " George Orwell

            by zaka1 on Thu Oct 10, 2013 at 02:47:22 PM PDT

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            •  Seriously (5+ / 0-)

              I've never been "suicidal" and I'm not about to start--but more and more, I find myself thinking how lucky I am that I didn't have kids, and I'm in my 50s, and I won't be around forever, so thank goodness! Like, "boy, it would be a lot easier if I was..."

              (I know, I don't outright WISH for it, but I think you and I are thinking along similar lines)

              This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

              by lunachickie on Thu Oct 10, 2013 at 05:58:49 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Ditto. (7+ / 0-)

                Mid-forties here.  I figure I'll see considerable governmental collapse, but should check out well before the environment turns revoltingly dicey.

                With no kids, that's that.  My nieces are simply going to have to manage somehow.  Or, as I tell 'em, "Sorry, I tried.  The idiots outnumber me ten to one."

                (-6.38, -7.03) Moderate left, moderate libertarian

                by Lonely Liberal in PA on Thu Oct 10, 2013 at 06:04:12 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Thing is I'm not suicidal (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                srelar

                but I'm scared to death of being homeless and whatever hardships I will have to endure when I'm really elderly or even if the cuts reduce my monthly income.  There are a lot of us that have really struggled and are just tired.

                I'm almost 60 and had to go on disability just the last four years or so.  I think it is being afraid all the time, I didn't have kids either, and almost everyone in my family has passed away.  It is just scary and everytime this stuff comes up I just shake because I will not be able to keep a roof over my head.  And honestly dying from lack of food is not only terribly painful, it takes a long time.

                Thanks lunachickie!

                "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolution­ary act. " George Orwell

                by zaka1 on Thu Oct 10, 2013 at 08:04:38 PM PDT

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      •  Come, now, lunachickie. Everything is on the table (5+ / 0-)
        Mr. Obama said he's willing to negotiate with Republicans over anything, but only after they allow Congress to re-open the government and raise the debt limit to end the threat of default. Even if Congress only managed to re-open the government for another six-weeks, Mr. Obama said he'd "absolutely" be willing to negotiate after that.
        Yes, he's standing firm on this obscene ReThug hostage taking (# 5, iirc) and I am happy about that.

        But after ReThugs relent with an awesome 6-week extension?

        Mr. Obama said he'd "absolutely" be willing to negotiate after that.
        What could possibly go wrong?

        As of 9pm 8/30/13: RETIRED Pie Warrior. Substance over Sh*t Flinging (as best as I am able) ~ JV

        by JVolvo on Thu Oct 10, 2013 at 04:40:31 PM PDT

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        •  It means (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          tb mare, JVolvo

          we have 6 weeks to start seriously leaning on the White House, and/or to our reps and senators.

          I suggest some phone or email plastering. Perhaps a coordinated effort where we do a diary marathon or something. I call or write or tweet or email or something--to the WH and to my reps--every day anyway. I wouldn't mind kicking it up a notch and have a half-million of my closest friends join me ;)

          This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

          by lunachickie on Thu Oct 10, 2013 at 06:03:03 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It means write the White House and say NO! (0+ / 0-)

            We need to tell Obama to hold firm and do not negotiate on the debt ceiling. Even if he has to negotiate the shutdown separately (and polls suggest the shutdown is taking its toll greatly on Republicans), he mustn't budge on the debt ceiling; have it raised and be done with it. Remind him that the 2012 losers / minority party for the last 4 election cycles don't get to demand concessions on the winners.

            If the GOP puts us into default, they will not only take most of the blame from the citizens, as they already are, but they may find a lot of corporate dollars going into Democratic pockets this time (still a serious problem itself). They are already likely to fact a primary election season in Hell. The self interest of the leadership, who are looking at the end of their time in power for the rest of their careers, will budge.

    •  The grand bargain was to stop a shudown (8+ / 0-)

      They rejected it, thus it failed. It's over. Reset the negotiation schedule. Remind Obama and Reid that the losers / minority party for the last 4 cycles do not get to demand concessions on the winners / majority party.

      It is time for them to counter with a $15.00 hour minimum wage, adding to Social Security, increases for SNAP, eliminate the debt ceiling, a 2 trillion budget increase for 2015, and close lots of corporate loopholes & rescind the Bush tax cuts on earners making $250,000 per year to pay for it and close down the deficit. Boehner himself recently said we have run deficits for 55 years. How did we become the world's most prosperous country if that was a problem??

      Set the bar high so that to even meet them halfway we end up ahead. Most Americans have no trouble taxing the wealthiest 1% of people and businesses. We must stop letting them setting the bar on "what the American people want". We own a thin majority on "most people" and once most others have a few years of enjoying the benefits of fairness, they won't go back any time soon.

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