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View Diary: Daily Kos Elections Live Digest: 10/18 (240 comments)

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  •  Imagine Schweitzer vs Christie debates... (10+ / 0-)

    (He's dead to me unless Walsh wins the Mt Senate seat though.  Schweitzer should work to make sure Walsh wins in 2014, as it would certainly lock down the Senate for Dems).

    Glenn Greenwald promotes far-right fringe extremist group The Oath Keepers - https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/statuses/377787818619064320

    by Jacoby Jonze on Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 06:37:57 AM PDT

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    •  Those debates would definitely need to take (5+ / 0-)

      place after 11:00PM, due to the profanity that would no doubt occur.

      I kind of suspected that Schweitzer turned 2014 down in part that he wouldn't want the "career politician" label two years down the road.

      I'm still a huge Schweitzer fan, and he could definitely win the presidential election, winning states that Obama did not! I can't say either thing about Martin O'Malley or Andrew Cuomo.

      "Go Forth in Love and Peace" --Be Kind to Dogs -- And Vote Democratic" --Dying words of Senator Thomas Eagleton, 2007

      by BlueSasha on Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 06:41:47 AM PDT

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      •  Which states (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        wadingo, MichaelNY

        I mean seriosly, if we're talking Montana or Nebraska, who cares.  

        The most logical Democratic path to the WH is deifnitely the Obama 2012 states; finding a cnadidate who can win other states is rather useless considering we know the easiest and most likely path.

        "What if you're on a game show one day and the name of some random New Jersey state senator is the only thing between you and several thousand dollars? And you'll think to yourself, "if only I had clapped faster." - sapelcovits

        by rdw72777 on Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 07:51:22 AM PDT

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        •  I care. And I think others here care about (0+ / 0-)

          expanding the party brand. And frankly, if it's Christie we're facing in 2016, we might have to get creative with strategy. But of course, this conversation may or may not be more relevant in a couple weeks, depending how big Christie wins by in a couple of weeks.

          "Go Forth in Love and Peace" --Be Kind to Dogs -- And Vote Democratic" --Dying words of Senator Thomas Eagleton, 2007

          by BlueSasha on Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 12:31:13 PM PDT

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          •  The problem is (0+ / 0-)

            Appealing to white males is not the way to expand the party brand.  That's probably the only demo where Schweitzer performs better than any of the other potential nominees.

            "What if you're on a game show one day and the name of some random New Jersey state senator is the only thing between you and several thousand dollars? And you'll think to yourself, "if only I had clapped faster." - sapelcovits

            by rdw72777 on Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 12:41:45 PM PDT

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            •  If we add Schweitzer to an HRC ticket, (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              BlueSasha

              with whom do the Republicans do well?

              Overall, white males are hardly the be all or end all for our party's prospects. But even slight improvements overall makes us much more competitive. Short of having Obama-like circumstances again, there's only so much we can do to improve with certain groups. Nobody expects us to win white males, but again, improvement is the key.

              I also wonder how much improvement matters for the long term, both in the sense of getting people used to voting for a Democrat again and even at the legislative level, directly and indirectly. By directly, I mean helping us improve enough to let us win seats outright and help us down ballot to rebuild our benches. By indirectly, I mean getting people used to voting for a Democrat, even at the legislative level, which might--emphasis on might--make them more likely to vote for a Democrat the federal level. Again, we are not talking massive changes, but a few percent here or there really puts the screws to Republicans unless they see substantial improvement with everyone but white males.

              You're a Constitutional conservative. I'm a Constitutional conservative. Who isn't a Constitutional conservative? We are all proud Constitutional conservatives. Ted Cruz in 2016!

              by bjssp on Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 12:58:27 PM PDT

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              •  I never said they were absolutely crucial-- (0+ / 0-)

                of course I don't think that... but to say they simply don't matter isn't true. That's the only place I'm going with that.

                "Go Forth in Love and Peace" --Be Kind to Dogs -- And Vote Democratic" --Dying words of Senator Thomas Eagleton, 2007

                by BlueSasha on Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 01:04:53 PM PDT

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            •  Well, if you put that way... (0+ / 0-)

              But seriously: blue-collar and rural American still matters in Democratic strategy. I'd say it matters presidentially, but undoubtedly still on Senate and House levels. Schweitzer, in my view, has a unique potential to tap into that populations votes without giving up our principles.

              I'm not trying to sell you on Schweitzer (though I'm more than willing to try). But disregarding those huge segments of America has, and can still doom many a candidate.

              "Go Forth in Love and Peace" --Be Kind to Dogs -- And Vote Democratic" --Dying words of Senator Thomas Eagleton, 2007

              by BlueSasha on Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 12:59:25 PM PDT

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            •  It sure is (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              BlueSasha, JBraden, MichaelNY, jncca

              Any greater appeal to white males basically dooms any GOP candidate.  

              The key missing element of what should be the 21st century Dem coalition is working class white males.  Every other demographic breaks down in a fairly consistent way, but lower income white males largely being in the party of Romney really makes no sense.

              If a Dem can get even a middling improvement among this group, especially in the west, the Republicans are doomed to a fate worse than McCain08.

              Of course, we don't need to improve in this group to win the Presidency, but we do to win the House with a decent margin.

              Hillary and Schweitzer expand the brand.  Biden or Cuomo do not.

              Mr. Gorbachev, establish an Electoral College!

              by tommypaine on Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 01:04:18 PM PDT

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              •  Specifically, southern white working males (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                BlueSasha

                or more likely southern white working females. Where we usually win or at least do somewhat well, we're not nearly as bad with white working class people as we are elsewhere, i.e. southern states.

                You're a Constitutional conservative. I'm a Constitutional conservative. Who isn't a Constitutional conservative? We are all proud Constitutional conservatives. Ted Cruz in 2016!

                by bjssp on Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 01:47:50 PM PDT

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    •  I know VPs aren't supposed to add anything, (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      WisJohn, JBraden

      but imagine if you're HRC and you're looking at a dud like Cruz or Paul. You'd be looking at an absolute route to begin with, but if you put someone like Schweitzer, who is definitely to your right and the party's right on some issues but is to you and your party's left on others and, more importantly, can campaign as a feisty populist, particularly in the rural areas, wouldn't you do even better? I think so. This might be an indirect way of helping congressional and state legislative Democrats more than anything.

      You're a Constitutional conservative. I'm a Constitutional conservative. Who isn't a Constitutional conservative? We are all proud Constitutional conservatives. Ted Cruz in 2016!

      by bjssp on Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 07:20:07 AM PDT

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      •  Because they are cautious people (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jncca

        They don't take risks like that.

        "What do you mean "conspiracy"? Does that mean it's someone's imaginings and that the actual polls hovered right around the result?" - petral

        by conspiracy on Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 07:23:31 AM PDT

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        •  What's the risk here? (0+ / 0-)

          You're a Constitutional conservative. I'm a Constitutional conservative. Who isn't a Constitutional conservative? We are all proud Constitutional conservatives. Ted Cruz in 2016!

          by bjssp on Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 07:34:56 AM PDT

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          •  Schweitzer being Schweitzer (0+ / 0-)

            "What do you mean "conspiracy"? Does that mean it's someone's imaginings and that the actual polls hovered right around the result?" - petral

            by conspiracy on Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 07:36:19 AM PDT

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            •  Ehh, perhaps. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              BlueSasha

              What's he done that's been controversial? I don't think he's any more likely to say something stupid than Biden is, and he was able to control himself.

              You're a Constitutional conservative. I'm a Constitutional conservative. Who isn't a Constitutional conservative? We are all proud Constitutional conservatives. Ted Cruz in 2016!

              by bjssp on Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 07:39:46 AM PDT

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              •  He's just a showman (0+ / 0-)

                Stuff like vetoing republican passed legislature bills with a cattle branding iron is his thing.  Personally I like his style, but some may just find it screwy for a Presidential candidate.

                Intelligence agencies keep things secret because they often violate the rule of law or of good behavior. -Julian Assange-

                by ChadmanFL on Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 08:41:20 AM PDT

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                •  But that's where it would be a good pick. (6+ / 0-)

                  If you go and watch clips of him, I think you'll agree he comes across as authentic. You might not like him, but he doesn't seem like a typical politician. He makes his points simply but eloquently, in a much more literal but equally forceful way like Obama does at his best. Kind of like Bill Clinton, come to think of it.

                  And you know what? Vetoing the Republican bills with a cattle branding? That's kind of...fun? If not that, something similar. That's a good thing. It's serious business, but there's nothing wrong with a little showiness. He's not a clown, but he doesn't look clownish, at least in my opinion, for doing something like that. Maybe he would on a national stage, but he can probably be tamed to whatever degree is necessary. But then, does he need to be? If the role of the vice presidential candidate is to be an attack dog of sorts, why is his style so bad? It's less vitriolic but perhaps just as forceful.

                  The issue differences are a real concern, no doubt, as are any sort of ethical issues that might have prevented him from running next year. But lots of people seem to be hinting that he'd be a bad pick for his personality, something I am not seeing. If anything, his style would be an asset. It's a nice contrast to HRC's, for instance, and almost kitschy to urban and upscale suburban voters, I would think.

                  You're a Constitutional conservative. I'm a Constitutional conservative. Who isn't a Constitutional conservative? We are all proud Constitutional conservatives. Ted Cruz in 2016!

                  by bjssp on Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 08:52:14 AM PDT

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      •  Hillary would pick someone from her circle (0+ / 0-)

        Probably Rahm Emanuel or Terry McAuliffe or Tom Vilsack.

        You don't fight the fights you can win. You fight the fights that need fighting. -President Andrew Sheppard (D-Wisconsin)

        by Gpack3 on Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 12:45:20 PM PDT

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        •  Rahm Emmanuel? (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jncca, MichaelNY

          For a few reasons, I can't see him on a national ticket, at least not until he's a senator or a governor.

          You're a Constitutional conservative. I'm a Constitutional conservative. Who isn't a Constitutional conservative? We are all proud Constitutional conservatives. Ted Cruz in 2016!

          by bjssp on Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 12:59:28 PM PDT

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        •  Snorted up my coffee at "Rahm Emanuel" (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          geoneb, MetroGnome, jncca, MichaelNY

          I think I'd be glad to bet my spleen against that happening.

          Mr. Gorbachev, establish an Electoral College!

          by tommypaine on Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 01:07:13 PM PDT

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        •  It's funny (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          MichaelNY, GleninCA

          It's like people don't think she learned anything from her run in 2008.  That race unchained her.  The people that think her possible presidency is Bill's third term after what she went through in 2008 are delusional.  Hillary's going to do what Hillary wants to do, this time.  And, that's going to overlap with Bill's circle far less than some cynical folks think it will.

    •  I agree (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wadingo, LordMike

      Schweitzer should have run for Senate.  He can't beat any Dem east of the Mississippi in the primary so unless he thinks HRC/O'Malley/Cuomo/Patrick/Gillibrand/etc are all going to defer to him, I really don't know what he's thinking.

      Like you he's dead to me for dodging the Senate race.  And it's why I'm nervous Charlie Crist won't commit to FL-Gov 2014 officially...the alternatives take a deep step down from the top candidate.

      "What if you're on a game show one day and the name of some random New Jersey state senator is the only thing between you and several thousand dollars? And you'll think to yourself, "if only I had clapped faster." - sapelcovits

      by rdw72777 on Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 07:56:26 AM PDT

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      •  Crist (0+ / 0-)

        The thing that gives me pause with him is that he sacrificied an easy re-election in 2010. He might view the gubernatorial race as a step backwards.

        "What do you mean "conspiracy"? Does that mean it's someone's imaginings and that the actual polls hovered right around the result?" - petral

        by conspiracy on Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 11:47:36 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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