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View Diary: All Republican Offers Include The Same Clause (70 comments)

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  •  Uh huh (0+ / 0-)

    We should be able to go 100% of GDP in debt.

    Hell, 200-300%. Why stop there?

    I support raising the debt ceiling (this time); I just strongly oppose the drumbeat of more debt, more debt, MORE DEBT. It will eventually implode.

    Over the long term, we can only spend as much as the American people (especially the middle class) are willing to be taxed. What is the plan to see that this happens?

    (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
    Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

    by Sparhawk on Mon Oct 14, 2013 at 05:48:12 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  But in the near- to medium-term, (17+ / 0-)

      taking the lessons of the Great Depression, we should borrow and spend our way out. Afterward, when times are good, tax and pay down the debt. Of course, it has to not be just the people paying but the corporations as well.

      Government and laws are the agreement we all make to secure everyone's freedom.

      by Simplify on Mon Oct 14, 2013 at 05:59:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  We won't (0+ / 0-)

        There is a low probability we are going to do anything of the kind.

        I think there is a much higher probability of us spending ourselves into a crisis, and one that we can't solve by making a deal with the Republicans.

        Republicans have "trickle down economics". Democrats have "Keynesian economics". Both are fairy tales told by their respective political groups because it's what they want to hear.  There is no such thing as a free lunch.

        In reality, I think the problem will eventually be solved (or not) by a series of painful cuts and/or tax increases, both of which mainly affecting the middle class. I think there is no way it can be otherwise. Or we end up like Japan, in desperate straits with a debt of 250% of GDP and a lot of useless "stimulative" public works projects.

        (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
        Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

        by Sparhawk on Mon Oct 14, 2013 at 06:14:50 PM PDT

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    •  We have the ability to continue to print more (10+ / 0-)

      money, so nothing's going to implode. If we default, our currency can be pulled as the international currency, and then we'd be in deep trouble. If we can get control of both houses again, taxes can be raised on the very wealthy so that they can pay down the debt. They have been the beneficiaries of most of the growth, and we need to redistribute the wealth downward. Repuke policies have created this mess, and it's going to take the Dems to fix it. Give us both houses, get rid of the filibuster, and we can start building this country again. That will take care of the debt.

    •  Well as long as it is policy (7+ / 0-) limp along expecting the private sector to employ everybody tax revenues will be low and expenditures for unemployment, various economic stabilization programs, and the military (the employer of last resort) will be high, the deficit will be high, and the debt will grow.  The debt ceiling will not change that as long as we are paying $1.2 trillion a year for wars past, present, and future.

      We can spend as much as the government decides to spend.  That money goes into the economy and comes back in the taxes on higher incomes from closer to full employment.

      There is no plan to see the debt decreased because everybody wants to live within our governmental means now this very instant--which means laying off large numbers of workers, increasing employment, and decreasing tax revenues.

      The important issue is what the money is spent for when you go into debt.  The GOP's record is to spent money on the military and war and tax cuts and tax shelters for corporations.  None of those actually lower the cost of economic activity.  But investing money in transportation facilities, communication, health care, education, green energy, housing renovation, and pollution abatement would lower the cost of economic activity.

      50 states, 210 media market, 435 Congressional Districts, 3080 counties, 192,480 precincts

      by TarheelDem on Mon Oct 14, 2013 at 06:11:45 PM PDT

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    •  What the heck are you (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      talking about?  The debt ceiling does nothing to increase debt.  It's about obligations we already have.

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