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View Diary: An attempted American Putsch (37 comments)

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  •  I'm not a fan of Marcantonio (1+ / 0-)
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    Gung ho opponent of Hitler until the Soviet-Nazi Pact of August 23, 1939 that divided Poland.  That suddenly converted him into an opponent of American involvement in the war - a war between two sets of fascist capitalists - an "imperialist war" both Marcantonio and Stalin called it.  Until June 22, 1941, when Hitler broke the pact and invaded the Soviet Union.  Suddenly Marcantonio became a gung ho supporter of American entry into the war.

    Sorry, but these gyrations were how you could spot a Communist back then, defined as a person whose primary loyalty was to the Soviet Union and not the United States, and who was therefore blind to the mass murder and tyranny occurring therein.

    "We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals, now we know that it is bad economics." Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Jan. 20, 1937

    by Navy Vet Terp on Tue Oct 15, 2013 at 10:43:41 AM PDT

    •  Navy (0+ / 0-)

      Perhaps you know little about Marcantonio then other than that.

      You should also know that most Americans especially Republicans opposed entry into the war. We were mostly happy that the Nazi's were doing what they did. You should go back and read the statements of the equivalent of the Fox News correspondents of the time.

      Many, but not all, of those who opposed entry into the war changed their mind. Marcantonio was not alone in this. Many of them were Communists and Socialists and served bravely in the War.

      We accepted Russia as an ally, like it or not.

      •  Absolutely, the enemy of my enemy (0+ / 0-)

        is my friend.  And we forget that it was primarily the Soviet Union that defeated Nazi Germany.  What Americans and Brits were doing in North Africa, Italy and France were side skirmishes compared to the mass blood letting going on on the Russian front.  22 to 30 million Soviets died - civilian and military - compared to about 400,000 Americans.  And yes, isolationists who opposed the war were primarily right wing Republicans - defeated, I would note, when Wendell Wilkie, who supported all-out aid to Britain, defeated Robert Taft and won the Republican nomination in 1940.

        None of which affects what I wrote about Marcantonio.

        "We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals, now we know that it is bad economics." Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Jan. 20, 1937

        by Navy Vet Terp on Tue Oct 15, 2013 at 11:09:18 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Isolationism was complicated (0+ / 0-)

        As a rule the R party was against involvement in WWII.  Given that the entire generation of politicians alive at that time likely served in WWI, this is somewhat understandable, especially as the USA wasn't part of the League of Nations etc.

        Roosevelt was more inclined to intervene and pretty much did everything he could politically to help, against fairly united opposition on one side of the aisle and a fair bit of opposition on his side.  In spite of that opposition though, he won the 1940 election and pushed through a MASSIVE naval appropriation and military mobilization bill, which is a lot of why we weren't totally screwed after Pearl Harbor, had the logistical tail for a modest invasion of North Africa in 1941 and were able to bury the Japanese in ships and aircraft by 1943, while simultaneously sending bombing raids every night.

        A majority of USA wan't anti-interventionist.   A plurality might have been, depending on when you checked.  As is typical there was a large chunk who didn't care, and with the executive interventionist, with still significant majorities in congress, those of his party who were wobbly went along because they didn't care enough to buck the party on that issue.

        •  Also the parties were less homogenoeus then (0+ / 0-)

          Some Rs were interventionist and some Ds isolationist.  Only the Rs fielded isolationist candidates for president but I'm sure at the lower levels of government there were some in all walks of life.

        •  greblos (0+ / 0-)

          While what you say is right as far as it goes, you forget the influence of the Bund and the early version of right wing media. They were mostly swept away by Pearl Harbor.


          •  Yeah, I'm not very up on that period (0+ / 0-)

            I know a lot more about Europe in the 1930s because I've been interested in the origins of WWII since I was a child, but really only know about the USA in that period because of my interest in where exactly the python lump of ships that burst onto the scene in 1943 came from.  From there I also learned about massive mobilization efforts already underway by mid 1940 and preparations by industry to rapidly shift over to a war footing.

            By that time though (mid 1940) the R primaries were over and the isolationist faction had pretty much lost the fight.  They  might have made a comeback without Pearl Harbor, but we'll never know.

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