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View Diary: Why Some “Blue Dogs” Aren’t Worth Feeding: The Myth of the Appeasing Moderate & H.R. 368 (25 comments)

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  •  asdf (4+ / 0-)

    I suspect this diary won't get much love here because of the "we have to excuse them due to conservative districts" meme, but you are exactly right. Purge the party of Blue Dogs and run a 50 state strategy with real, tough Democrats. It won't work all the time or everywhere, but I think we would be surprised how well real Democrats could do.

    I won't believe corporations are people until Texas executes one. Leo Gerard.

    by tgrshark13 on Tue Oct 15, 2013 at 03:02:11 PM PDT

    •  This view has been completely marginalized (0+ / 0-)

      since Obama took office, esp. since around 2010. The Party has moved rightward and doesn't want any of this Democratic wing of the Democratic party 50-state nonsense. No more of this, it' snot bipartisan enough. Not centrist enough. Not pragmatic enough.

      I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

      by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Oct 15, 2013 at 03:32:46 PM PDT

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      •  Then we need a new party. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SouthernLiberalinMD

        "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana." --Townes Van Zandt

        by Bisbonian on Tue Oct 15, 2013 at 03:52:08 PM PDT

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      •  Not sure if this is snark, but (2+ / 0-)

        just because an idea is marginalized here doesn't make it wrong. Strong Democrats have better electoral prospects on net than Blue Dogs. And even more important, they will do what they run on whereas the Blue Dogs, as the diary showed, will run and hide or screw up good Democratic legislation.

        I won't believe corporations are people until Texas executes one. Leo Gerard.

        by tgrshark13 on Tue Oct 15, 2013 at 05:21:56 PM PDT

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        •  Hey, I *agree* with the idea. Dean brought (0+ / 0-)

          me back into the party. I'm with you all the way.

          But notice that Dean was kicked to the curb and the DNC turned into OFA central--and if you think OFA is into this Democratic wing of Democratic party 50-state idea, you've got another think coming.  Obama is a  Chicago School of Economics "I love Reagan" "Let's all be bipartisan" President.

          I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

          by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Oct 15, 2013 at 05:46:32 PM PDT

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    •  Do you live in a red district? (0+ / 0-)

      Just curious. Where I live, we should be so lucky as to have our blue dog back. Instead we have Scott DesJarlais. And yes, we will be rid of him next year, but unfortunately it will be a Republican who is likely to replace him and Jim Tracy, that Republican, is only marginally better.

      You can't scare me, I'm sticking to the Union - Woody Guthrie

      by sewaneepat on Tue Oct 15, 2013 at 03:57:07 PM PDT

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      •  Where I live (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        tgrshark13, SouthernLiberalinMD

        I live in the Virginia district held by Gerry Connolly. It was a marginal district held by Tom Davis for a while, but was redistricted as safer Dem. before 2012. However your statement proves my point about Blue Dogs. As much as your Blue Dog tried to be "Republican-lite" he got beat. The "Blue Dog" approach failed.

        •  People here believed Lincoln Davis was too liberal (0+ / 0-)

          Crazy as that sounds. FYI, we had a real FDR liberal run last year for state Senate- he lost by 30+ points. So did a more moderate, though not real conservative, who ran for state House. Tennessee, except for Nashville and Memphis, has gone nuts.

          The only hope for a Democrat is a blue dog and that is just a fact. I don't like that fact, but it is true nonetheless.

          Marginal districts are not the same as solid red districts.

          You can't scare me, I'm sticking to the Union - Woody Guthrie

          by sewaneepat on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 03:05:08 AM PDT

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          •  I have some ideas about that (0+ / 0-)

            and I've lived in solid-red districts (in North Florida. Not much fun).

            But there are some fundamental problems with our electoral system that have to be fixed, either first, or simultaneously.

            I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

            by SouthernLiberalinMD on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 09:16:23 AM PDT

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      •  Nope. (2+ / 0-)

        But I don't know what that has to do with the argument I was making. Sure, electing a Blue Dog Dem may feel better than being "represented" by a wingnut. However, what exactly would a Blue Dog deliver for you?

        I know the damage they cause so I guess the question is what is the countervailing benefit to individuals in a red district? From a governing perspective, the only advantage I see is if one Blue Dog can tip the balance of power in the House and that doesn't reflect the electoral world we currently live in.

        I won't believe corporations are people until Texas executes one. Leo Gerard.

        by tgrshark13 on Tue Oct 15, 2013 at 05:26:21 PM PDT

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        •  tgrshark13 is right.... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          SouthernLiberalinMD

          Electing "Blur Dogs" sometimes creates more problems than it's worth. When we had a majority, they all played the "squeaky wheel" role.

          •  And you think the Congresses after the 2010 (0+ / 0-)

            election are better than the one before that had more blue dogs? I'd go back to the Congress of 2009-2010 in a heartbeat.

            You can't scare me, I'm sticking to the Union - Woody Guthrie

            by sewaneepat on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 02:59:11 AM PDT

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          •  And then everybody here, who claimed we (0+ / 0-)

            "had to" elect Blue Dogs, said "We can't have a public option, or reform the filibuster, or get a climate bill through the Senate b/c we never really had a majority. We never had the votes. Because of Blanche Lincoln, Mary Landrieu, Ben Nelson, etc. etc. etc."

            We can't be Democrats because the right-wingers in our own party make it impossible to have a real majority but we must elect right-wingers because we can't get a majority otherwise. Is that about right?

            We've been saying this since around 1990. How are we doing? Do we like where this philosophy has gotten us, cause it looks to me like it's driven us farther and farther rightward. Now we're fighting people in our own party who want to cut Social Security. Now we're fighting people in our own party who defend Total Information Awareness. When does it stop? There's people on here who will defend anything if they have a Teabagger to look at who can be reasonably defined as "worse."

            But "look at that crazy guy! I'd better vote for somebody else!" is not a political party. Political parties have platforms, values, and alliances based on mutual interest and shared principles. I don't know what the hell this is.

            What do Democrats stand for? If I knocked on a door in campaign season and the person on the other side asked me that question, what would I say? Marriage equality?

            I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

            by SouthernLiberalinMD on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 09:27:07 AM PDT

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        •  What the blue dog delivered was Nancy Pelosi (0+ / 0-)

          as Speaker, which meant a hell of a lot of legislation got done those first two years. Davis voted for some of it, and against someof it, but none of it would have been passed if Boehner was Speaker. Do you think the ACA would have been passed if Pelosi was not Speaker?

          You can't scare me, I'm sticking to the Union - Woody Guthrie

          by sewaneepat on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 02:52:37 AM PDT

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          •  A hell of a lot of legislation? (0+ / 0-)

            Most of it died under the weight of the Senate filibuster, which couldn't be reformed or removed, because we had too many conservative Democrats in the Senate.

            Or there's the ACA, which could have been far better with some market-based competition in it in the form of a public option, which idea was essentially DOA because of conservatives like Lincoln and Baucus and Nelson. And, in fact, Lieberman, who actually threatened to filibuster the President's flagship legislation.

            A hell of a lot of legislation=the ACA as it finally emerged, which isn't actually very good, much of it having been written by the Heritage Foundation. It's better than nothing, but could have been far, far better with a public option included. Also a financial reform bill which is pretty close to toothless. And a stimulus which was too small and riddled with tax cuts and which got held up by the President as essentially a failure by Sept. 2010 (I don't agree with him on that, btw).

            That's the "lots of legislation" you're talking about, and frankly, the ACA and the stimulus are pretty much the only real achievements one could point to. Because when you fill your party with conservatives, they do what Republicans do:  they obstruct the consideration, discussion, and votes on good ideas.

            I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

            by SouthernLiberalinMD on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 09:33:08 AM PDT

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        •  The point of my question is that I don't think (0+ / 0-)

          people in solid blue districts realize what people are like in solid red districts. Folks down here are batshit crazy. read the comments on DesJarlais's Facebook page. The majority of folks here thought Davis was too liberal, I kid you not. those of us who thought he was too conservative voted for him anyway because we had no choice.

          You can't scare me, I'm sticking to the Union - Woody Guthrie

          by sewaneepat on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 02:57:02 AM PDT

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          •  I do. I lived in a 74% Republican district before (0+ / 0-)

            I lived here. We have a real opening for changing how things work in a lot of those districts, IMO, but we have to be smart, and we have to be sincere in our aims.

            I guess what I'm saying is that while I think you're sincere, based on your words, I think a lot of people in the party hierarchy who agree with you are not. Their aim is to continually move the party to the right. And they do that by advocating postitions even Republican voters often eschew, like cutting Social Security and Medicare.

            I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

            by SouthernLiberalinMD on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 09:38:15 AM PDT

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        •  Another thing my former blue dog would have (0+ / 0-)

          Done is to vote not to shut down the government and vote to raise the debt ceiling.  Right now that would be a lot. DesJarlais will never vote for either.

          You can't scare me, I'm sticking to the Union - Woody Guthrie

          by sewaneepat on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 03:10:50 AM PDT

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