Skip to main content

View Diary: While We Are Subjected To Kabuki Theater The Country Continues March Towards Authoritarianism (104 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  It's not unpleasant, nor inconvenient. It's just (0+ / 0-)

    vacuous.  Hey, here's an idea... serendipityisabitch can just stop visiting my diaries.  I've pointed this out a few times.  For example, given what I've seen you writing in my diaries, I can't imagine ever wanting to check out any of your diaries, and ditto for serendipityisabitch.

    And yet you guys keep showing up over and over and over.  It is very weird, to tell you the truth.  If my writing is so unappealing to you both, why do you keep showing up?

    It has crossed my mind that the reason is to malign me, but since that has been denied vehemently, I'm at a lost in trying to come up with another reason.  Perhaps one day I'll figure it out, once I write my 1,000th diary.

    •  Except that you have visited my diaries (6+ / 0-)

      and even rec'd them, as I have rec'd yours in the past.

      I can't speak for anyone else Ray but my criticisms of you are based entirely on the specifics of a particular analysis or behavior on your part. I have registered both approval or disapproval depending on the circumstances. There isn't and cannot be anything personal in this since I do not know you. I only know the persona you adopt online.

      I "show up" in your diaries because, even when I think the diary is sub par, the comment threads can be illuminating. I don't always comment because I don't always see a need to. In this instance I thought Deadhead's comment was DBAD and said so. Why you would take this personally is something only you can explain.

      Likewise it's a mystery why you would post on Daily Kos if you don't want to expose yourself to unwelcome critiques. You are guaranteed to get push back here. It's a given. I've experienced it myself and it never even occurred to me to complain about it, much less to advocate a policy of self ghettoization as you have.

      I regret to say that I doubt any of this will get through to you. I've reluctantly come to the conclusion that you're not really interested in any dialogue that challenges your own preconceptions. I'd love to be proven wrong.

       

      Nothing human is alien to me.

      by WB Reeves on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 10:41:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well rationalized. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Ray Pensador

        But if you (and others) understand what Ray is saying, and more often than not disagree, and you've already voiced your disagreement very clearly, then

        Why keep writing the same criticisms over and over?
        When you (and others) are involved in unique threads, and you are commenting in good faith, no one has a problem with that. But when you (and others) show up and harp on the same thing, over and over and over, that's not good faith, that's not showing up because "the comment threads can be illuminating".

        You cannot possibly participate in what you (and others) do in Ray's diaries and then try and point the finger at one of us and say DBAD. Seriously.

        Your comment, and your rational, sounds great, right up to the point of the serial harassment of Ray.

        You (and others) have a choice to seek "illumination" elsewhere, to avoid the toxicity of this harassing behavior. Yet you (and others) seemed compelled to follow Ray, and attack in the same way, over and over.

        Whatever lesson you think you're going to teach Ray, you're not going to teach him. If he doesn't want to learn a major scale, he's not going to learn a major scale. (Assuming that your version of a major scale is actually a major scale.)

        Since you know that your criticism, legit or not, is falling on deaf ears, and that all you're doing is creating/adding to a toxic environment, why do it?

        Do you have a compulsion to belittle others? Or do you need conflict in your daily life to feel validated? Do you think that you're the righteous defender of Internet Truth?

        We don't need a reply to those rhetorical questions, because we don't care.

        Ray is not going to change his view to yours. He is not going to stop writing his diaries. You will not get him banned. None of your objectives are achievable.

        Your only achievement garnered by continuously coming to Ray's diaries to take a dump in them, is to successfully be a nuisance.

        MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
        And BTW, I have no problem with anyone DBADing me when I write a comment such as the one that started this subthread. I amused myself, and if I were serendipityisabitch, I would be mildly amused as well. Plus, I gave you a chance to flex your comment conflict muscles, so,


        MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
        Yay.


        "Politeness is wasted on the dishonest, who will always take advantage of any well-intended concession." - Barrett Brown

        by 3rdOption on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 11:26:48 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Again, I can't speak for others, only for myself (6+ / 0-)

          If you can point out a specific instance of "bad faith" on my part do so. Broad brush collective generalizations are simply a rhetorical device presented in lieu of actual evidence.

          As for why some may feel compelled to bring up the same criticisms repeatedly, that might have something to do with Ray's refusal/inability to answer them. Just a thought.

          In this instance of course, my comment was directed to Deadhead rather than Ray. It was Ray who chose to inject himself. This is his prerogative but it makes hash of your insinuation that I am "harassing" him.

          More to the point, I reject the whole notion that reasoned criticism or questions about a diarist's past published statements, repetitive or otherwise, can be accurately described as "harassment". As a practical matter, no one is entitled to define the limits of criticism here other than Kos and the admins. The community may express itself on this but final say remains with the management.

          I have no interest in seeing Ray banned or any of the other nefarious designs you imagine. Apparently you enjoy a rich fantasy life. However, in objective reality, your and Ray's right to express your opinions does not exceed the right of others to do the same. I will continue to express my views where and when I see fit, within the parameters of the site's rules. I imagine others will do so as well.

          An inconvenient reality but one I'm afraid you'll just have to learn to live with.  

          Nothing human is alien to me.

          by WB Reeves on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 12:01:26 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Why repeat your questions? (0+ / 0-)
            As for why some may feel compelled to bring up the same criticisms repeatedly, that might have something to do with Ray's refusal/inability to answer them.
            Ok, so you know you're not going to get the response that you want, EVER, so why keep asking the same questions over and over. Whatever point you've wanted to make, you've made already.

            Why keep hectoring Ray?

            It's not about him, I can assure you. If you can't sleep at night because someone is wrong on the internet, it's about you.

            A teacher, after explaining something over and over to the same student, who over and over cannot or will not give the correct answer about the subject, will simply give the student an "F" and move on.

            You are teaching Ray nothing.

            It is "reasoned criticism" to ask why a rational person would keep doing the same thing over and over, get the same undesirable result, and expect constructive progress.

            So either:

            • You do not expect constructive progress, and thus you have an illicit agenda, and/or
            • You desire the undesirable result, due to an illicit agenda, and/or
            • You are a rational person who has a massive blind spot obscuring illicit motivations, and/or
            • You are a rational person with illicit motivations that you are aware of and enjoy, and or/or
            • You are not a rational person.

            I think you have great capacity for rational thought.

            I reject the whole notion that reasoned criticism or questions about a diarist's past published statements, repetitive or otherwise, can be accurately described as "harassment".
            Once again, your "reasoned criticism", left unanswered (to your satisfaction), after being stated umpteen times, doesn't need to be stated again. You're not going to get the answer you want, and you know that.

            So the reason you keep after the same things over and over has nothing to do with logic, reason, or resolution, it's about you.

            So the question is,

            What is wrong with you, that you cannot simply avoid Ray's diaries by not clicking on them?
            • You've already asked your questions or stated your criticisms uncounted times.
            • You know you will not get the reply that you want.

            Yet you need to come into Ray's diaries and take a dump in them. This is a compulsion. If it wasn't, if your agenda was "reasoned criticism", you'd have given up long ago.

            What is wrong with you that you have such a compulsion to hector someone with criticisms that you know will fall on deaf ears?

            ...no one is entitled to define the limits of criticism here other than Kos and the admins.
            As is often the case, this is not about what is "legal". It is about what is right.

            You are not doing the right thing.

            I don't care if kos likes what you're doing, hates what you're doing, or doesn't give a fuck what you're doing. I do not care about his opinion.

            You are not doing the right thing.

            I will continue to express my views where and when I see fit
            Yes, we know, we know. "We are not the boss of you." We already got it, after the tenth or eleventh holding-your-breath tantrum.

            Once again, this is not about rules, or enforcement. It's about you, and

            You are not doing the right thing.

            Ray does not stalk and hector you. You follow Ray and hector him.

            All your rationalizations mean nothing.

            You are not doing the right thing.

            Do you even know what is wrong with you? Or are you going to write a comment telling me that "I'm not the boss of you" and I don't get to decide what's wrong and what's right?

            You are doing the wrong thing.

            Your denial not withstanding.

            If I were in your shoes, I would desperately want to know where this compulsion comes from, what is wrong with me, so I could put a stop to it immediately.

            (Footnote: I'm not talking about "mental" health here, I'm talking about ethical health...)


            "Politeness is wasted on the dishonest, who will always take advantage of any well-intended concession." - Barrett Brown

            by 3rdOption on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 01:03:29 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  what questions are you talking about, actually? (4+ / 0-)

              It seems to me that Ray and you are repeating yourselves a lot more than anybody else is.

              Of course nobody can compel Ray to respond in good faith to reasonable comments. That doesn't make the comments unreasonable.

              But it's far weirder than that. You've said that having a DBAD pointed at you isn't a problem. But if you had never posted in this diary, there's no reason to think that WB ever would have, either. So, really, what on earth are you running on about for over 1,000 words now?

              "I am not sure how we got here, but then, I am not really sure where we are." -Susan from 29

              by HudsonValleyMark on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 01:36:29 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  That's a real good question (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Hey338Too

                but according to 3rd Option, I'm the one who's obsessed and possibly mentally unbalanced.

                Sad.

                Nothing human is alien to me.

                by WB Reeves on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 02:09:12 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  And there you have the incitement to engage in (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  3rdOption

                  unjustifiable HRs and lobbing banning threats.  It's too formulaic by now.  He's clearly not saying you are mentally unbalanced.

                  Either way, this question is relevant:

                  What is wrong with you, that you cannot simply avoid Ray's diaries by not clicking on them?
                  That is a relevant question.  I don't think is customary for users to click on diaries of writers they have a negative opinion of.
                  •  No incitement, just facts (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Hey338Too

                    He's quite clearly suggesting that I have mental problems. If you really think otherwise, report the incident and see what the admins say.

                    The question isn't relevant since it was already answered. 3rd Option and yourself simply don't want to accept the answer given.  

                    Nothing human is alien to me.

                    by WB Reeves on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 02:33:22 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  "Quite clearly" by specifically stating the... (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Ray Pensador

                      ...opposite.

                      Nice.

                      He's quite clearly suggesting that I have mental problems.
                      after I clearly stated:
                      (Footnote: I'm not talking about "mental" health here, I'm talking about ethical health...)
                      This is a blatantly HRable offense. Where are my HRs then? Don't you have one to spare today?
                      The question isn't relevant since it was already answered.
                      Saying:
                      As for why some may feel compelled to bring up the same criticisms repeatedly, that might have something to do with Ray's refusal/inability to answer them.
                      has been proven to be patently illogical. I wrote a way-too-long post basically proving this repeatedly, and I'm not about to repeat it all.

                      If I did, I would be doing exactly what you folks are doing; asking the same question that someone refuses to answer repeatedly, while knowing an answer will not be forthcoming.

                      The reason you will not explain your motives is because the true and honest answer is exceeding unflattering.

                      If you were acting in good faith, you would have bailed long ago.

                      And now you cannot cop to your actual motives, even though you've been trapped in a logical corner, surrounded by enemy rooks and bishops, unable to move, unwilling to accept a checkmate.

                      I understand why you cannot answer the question:

                      If you know Ray is not going to respond in the way you think he should, EVER, why do you keep hectoring him about it?

                      Why haven't you just accepted that he is unmovable, and skipped over Ray's writings on the way to diaries that you feel more comfortable with?

                      Since I have a good idea of the answer(s) to this question (which I alluded to in one of my previous TL;DR comments), and I am certain that you are unwilling or unable to come clean, I'll stop asking it now.


                      "Politeness is wasted on the dishonest, who will always take advantage of any well-intended concession." - Barrett Brown

                      by 3rdOption on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 03:04:28 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Oh, in a footnote (0+ / 0-)

                        Obviously you knew exactly what you were saying and exactly how it would be taken, otherwise you wouldn't have thought it prudent to insert this disclaimer, albeit in a footnote.

                        While this verbal fig leaf may get you off the hook, it makes it quite plain what your notions of ethical behavior are worth. Likewise your opinions of what's truthful or honest. Contrary to your apparent belief, you are neither a mind reader or a prophet and have no standing whatever to pontificate on the motives of others. That you think otherwise is, as I said elsewhere, sad.

                        Your "question" is thoroughly dishonest. Again, I did not accost Ray. My comment was addressed to you. Ray chose to insert himself. To suggest otherwise is pure fabrication on your part.

                        Clean up your own act.

                         

                        Nothing human is alien to me.

                        by WB Reeves on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 03:41:31 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  "I know what you are, but what am I?" (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          Ray Pensador

                          You know the thread is too long and narrow when your opponent uses middle skool logic while flailing in mid-fail.

                          (See what I did there? That's a "call back".)

                          So where's the HR then? I keep asking, yet none is forthcoming.

                          Oh, and then there's this tidbit:

                          I think you have great capacity for rational thought.
                          Clearly an attack on your mental acuity/health.

                          Want to resolve all of your problems with Ray? Simply stop clicking on his diaries.

                          No matter how tempted, how compelled, how deep the urge, "Just say NO!" to clicking on Ray Pensador's diaries.

                          Imagine the sense of peace and equanimity that would wash over you, just by skipping over that one little link.

                          Perhaps we need a twelve-step program, for those addicted to shitting in Ray's diaries.


                          "Politeness is wasted on the dishonest, who will always take advantage of any well-intended concession." - Barrett Brown

                          by 3rdOption on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 05:14:25 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  I doubt you know enough about twelve step programs (0+ / 0-)

                            to judge their applicability. They require a modicum of honest self criticism.

                            So if you weren't intentionally insinuating mental illness, how was it that you thought it necessary to attach a disclaimer? If you weren't intentionally seeking to be prejudicial, why did you put it at the end of your comment rather than the top? If you were actually concerned to not give a false impression, the logical place to make the point would be at the beginning not in a foot note at the bottom.

                            Hmm?

                             

                            Nothing human is alien to me.

                            by WB Reeves on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 02:03:59 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Did you even read the fucking comment you... (0+ / 0-)

                            ...replied to?

                            I think you have great capacity for rational thought.
                            Finally, and I mean finally, when you have to resort to this:
                            I doubt you know enough about twelve step programs to judge their applicability. They require a modicum of honest self criticism.
                            The thread is done.

                            But of course:

                            "You ain't the boss o' me! I'll stop commenting when I decide to stop commenting!!! This thread isn't over 'till I say it's over!!!"


                            "Politeness is wasted on the dishonest, who will always take advantage of any well-intended concession." - Barrett Brown

                            by 3rdOption on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 07:11:43 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You didn't manage to answer any of the questions (0+ / 0-)

                            Why's that?

                            Nothing human is alien to me.

                            by WB Reeves on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 12:41:55 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                    •  here I disagree (4+ / 0-)

                      I think 3rdOption more clearly was insinuating that you are evil, probably not deranged. Apparently criminal, too, given all those "illicit"s, although I suppose that can mean pretty much whatever 3rdOption wants it to mean. Let's just say that it all seems pretty far off topic.

                      As for the notion that you were trying to incite people to HR, that would be risible under happier circumstances. I don't think Ray has any understanding to this day of why he has been HRed in the past, and he seems comfortable in the unknowing.

                      "I am not sure how we got here, but then, I am not really sure where we are." -Susan from 29

                      by HudsonValleyMark on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 04:39:33 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Point taken on "illicit". (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Ray Pensador

                        I have never used "illicit" as a pseudonym of "illegal", but upon inspection I see that in fact, it has a much closer tie to legality, or at least following custom, than I had thought.

                        "Evil" is too sweeping a word for this situation. I would merely say that, in Ray's diaries, WB Reeves frequently posts from the perspective of a bad-faith commenter. Not always, but often. As do several others.

                        As I've stated in my numerous TL;DR diatribes here, any reasonable, good-faith commenter who fundamentally disagreed with Ray would have long ago come to the conclusion that Ray will not alter his perspective, nor will he stop posting, nor will he get banned. A reasonable, good-faith commenter would then say, "Oh, well. No point in arguing with that guy..." and move on, avoiding Ray's diaries from that point forward.

                        Unless there are other, less morally acceptable motives. "Like what?" you may ask. I'll give you one possibility; just fucking with Ray for the fun of it. "For the Lulz."

                        I'm not sure if that's one of the motivations, but it certainly is plausible, along with several others that no one who views themselves as "righteous" would want to cop to publicly on this site.

                        But I think it's been pretty well defined that, after all this time, good-faith commenters, this abjectly disgusted with his presentation, would have just blown Ray off.


                        "Politeness is wasted on the dishonest, who will always take advantage of any well-intended concession." - Barrett Brown

                        by 3rdOption on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 05:03:47 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  whatev (5+ / 0-)

                          Speaking only for myself, I think it's odd that Ray so often seems uninterested in his own arguments, but since other people rec his diaries, I will sometimes point out whatever objections I may have. If he has no response, maybe somebody else will -- or maybe someone will agree that my objections have merit. It's like, y'know, political debate.

                          I really don't understand people who seem to argue that Ray's work (1) is valuable and (2) should be exempt from critics because he isn't interested in defending it. I guess I'm old-school, but if neither he nor anyone else defends his arguments, how good can they be? When he attacks people instead of defending his arguments, that's like a blinking light that says that we all had better hang on to our wallets.

                          "I am not sure how we got here, but then, I am not really sure where we are." -Susan from 29

                          by HudsonValleyMark on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 05:31:31 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  I think you're missing the point. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Ray Pensador
                            seem to argue that Ray's work... (2) should be exempt from critics
                            No one is saying this.

                            But how many times should Ray have to argue with the same people over exactly the same things before they realize that the argument was over dozens of diaries ago?

                            When you reach a point where agreeing to disagree is the logical next step, do you say "Fuck that! It ain't over 'till I say it's over!!" and keep coming back day after day hectoring Ray over the same stuff you've squeezed all the life out of all ready?

                            "You ain't the boss o' me! I can say whatever I want in any diary I want and ain't none you tellin' me utherwize!!!"

                            Err. Ok?

                            And if a commenter has done that crap for months, should Ray suddenly take them seriously if they actually make a salient point that, on the surface, does not appear to be an invitation to further pointless combat? Or should he just write them off and ignore them?

                            For my part, with certain exceptions, I simply don't open comments by the crew that hectors Ray. I don't even bother to read the guts once I see who wrote it. Skim. Skim. Skim. "Oh, here's someone I don't recognize, look, a sincere valid point. Hooray."

                            I've argued with Ray before, but never have I argued the same thing twice, and never have I argued just to fuck with him, or demean him or his perspective.

                            This crew of haters reminds me of the Tea Baggers we just saw flame out in Washington. The "negotiation" was over and done with two weeks ago, but they just wouldn't quit.

                            Just go away. Quit. Leave him alone. Skip over anything authored by Ray Pensador.

                            Unless your day is not complete without an internet fight, for some reason.


                            "Politeness is wasted on the dishonest, who will always take advantage of any well-intended concession." - Barrett Brown

                            by 3rdOption on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 05:50:43 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  huh? (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Hey338Too, WB Reeves
                            But how many times should Ray have to argue with the same people over exactly the same things before they realize that the argument was over dozens of diaries ago?
                            The argument about debt ceiling kabuki was over dozens of diaries ago? The discussion of October 15 (aka "Tuesday") was over dozens of diaries ago? Seriously?

                            I sometimes find Ray's diaries repetitious, but honestly I'm surprised that you offered this response, and that he recced it.

                            Now, if you continue to tell people to STFU STFU STFU, there isn't much they can say except that they aren't obligated to follow your orders. That doesn't mean that they are hectoring anybody; it means that you are. The same goes for Ray, and for anyone else.

                            For my part, with certain exceptions, I simply don't open comments by the crew that hectors Ray.
                            (blinks)

                            OK, so you're criticizing posts that, "with certain exceptions," you haven't even read.

                            What can I say? I don't think you're doing it right.

                            never have I argued just to fuck with him, or demean him or his perspective.
                            Neither have I, and as far as I can tell, neither has WB Reeves or serendipityisabitch. Nothing prevents you from dishing up these ad hominem smears, but I wish you wouldn't. I don't think that artful ambiguity about specifically whom you are attacking really helps. Again, the same goes for Ray and for anyone else.
                            This crew of haters reminds me of the Tea Baggers we just saw flame out in Washington.
                            Well, I'm not the one making unsupported accusations and demanding that other people do what I say.
                            Just go away. Quit. Leave him alone.
                            If I were "argu[ing] just to fuck with him," you could legitimately tell me to DBAD. As it stands, you don't really seem to have a reason.

                            "I am not sure how we got here, but then, I am not really sure where we are." -Susan from 29

                            by HudsonValleyMark on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 04:38:04 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Of course you haven't. (0+ / 0-)
                            never have I argued just to fuck with him, or demean him or his perspective.
                            Neither have I
                            We know the hater crew won't learn anything from this, we know you have underhanded motives that can't be acknowledged. We know that, if you were good-faith commenters, you'd have bailed long ago because of Ray's "obvious recalcitrance".

                            We get it.

                            So do you.

                            Cya.


                            "Politeness is wasted on the dishonest, who will always take advantage of any well-intended concession." - Barrett Brown

                            by 3rdOption on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 07:16:32 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  OK, so, what are my motives? (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            WB Reeves

                            As long as you're accusing me of lying, I think it would be interesting and possibly instructive to learn what you think I really want. I don't see what else anyone could hope to learn from your comments in this diary, beyond something about your comfort level for treating other people poorly while complaining that they're "haters."

                            "I am not sure how we got here, but then, I am not really sure where we are." -Susan from 29

                            by HudsonValleyMark on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 10:56:36 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                      •  Your point is well taken (0+ / 0-)

                        I still have to wonder though; if the intent wasn't to insinuate mental illness and thus prejudice the discussion, why would it have occurred to 3rdOption to insert a disclaimer in the first place? It makes no sense unless 3rdOption knew full well that the comment would be taken that way.

                        Nothing human is alien to me.

                        by WB Reeves on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 12:59:13 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

            •  All this verbiage (0+ / 0-)

              and no substance to speak of.

              I remind you, I didn't start this exchange, Ray did. So all the blather about me "following" and "hectoring" Ray is totally bogus.

              You seem to have some peculiar notions regarding the character of public debate, which is what discussions on this site are. If what you want is a "safe space" where you can dictate the parameters of acceptable criticism or engage pop psychology regarding the motives of others, this isn't the place for that.

              Questioning the mental health of a Kossack is  Hr'ble and could lead to banning.  Perhaps you've forgotten that?

              Nothing human is alien to me.

              by WB Reeves on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 02:01:27 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  Do you really think that if I wasn't up to the (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        3rdOption

        challenge of being critiqued I would still be here, posting the the regularity I do?  Think about that carefully.

        Have you seen how many of my diaries have passed the 700 or over 1,000 comments' threshold, with what I've termed the "fab-six" posting dozens of highly critical (in some cases, abusive) posts each, engaging in highly personal attacks, mockery, and maligning?

        Have you seen the last three or four HR piling-ons on posts that clearly do not meet the threshold, all done with total impunity?

        And yet, I'm still here; I'm still posting what I want to post, not intimidated one bit.

        I urge you to rethink that thus-far failing meme of me not being able to withstand criticism or different opinions.

        I enjoy those.  I do not like echo chambers.

        There is a huge difference between engaging in debate about issues, even if the debate is heated and contentious, and engaging in highly personal attacks, innuendos and mischaracterizations meant to malign.

        You say you've love to be proven wrong... You know what you have to do.  

        As the site guidelines suggest, focus on the argument instead of attacking the diarist.

        It's very easy to do.

        •  Ray, I've paid enough attention (5+ / 0-)

          to note that you've managed to alienate a number of folks who had previously supported you. Driving off people who agree with you politically is not a good sign.

          If you're not afraid of criticism, I suggest you stop complaining about it. In particular, I suggest you stop insinuating that it is all the product of a malign cabal. Likewise you should drop the attempts at embargoing discussion of such. This isn't a place where diarists get to define the limits of acceptable debate.

          You aren't fighting a "failing meme". You're up against an impression engendered by your own actions.

          Nothing human is alien to me.

          by WB Reeves on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 12:15:01 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  As I've said, I'm not really that concerned about (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            3rdOption

            the fab-six who have been known to post dozens of posts in many of my diaries in an inept and thus-far failing attempt at maligning me.

            As to the so-called "complaining" I'm just stating facts... If the fab-six want to continue behaving the way they have, as I've always said, it is them who make themselves look bad.

            Regarding maintaining a minimum level of debate decorum, all I suggest is that people try to follow the site guidelines.

            New Community Guidelines
            This of course, is more of the same failed attempt at mischaracterization:
            If you're not afraid of criticism, I suggest you stop complaining about it. In particular, I suggest you stop insinuating that it is all the product of a malign cabal. Likewise you should drop the attempts at embargoing discussion of such. This isn't a place where diarists get to define the limits of acceptable debate.
            Again, I welcome debate and criticism of my conclusions, and I've always said that the best way to do that is to present a counter-argument to mine...

            Notice that in this diary you have not addressed its content in any way shape or form, and have instead engaged in a failing attempt at maligning me.

            What I'm saying is that it's not going to work because the mischaracterizations are incongruent with the content of the diaries, and people can see that for themselves.

            Finally, from experience is not worth for me getting into circular arguments with members of the fab-six, given the blatant HR abuses I've been subjected to, with total impunity thus far.

            •  Ray, you jumped into a comment I made to (3+ / 0-)

              Deadhead that had nothing to do with substance of the diary and now you complain that I didn't address the diary? This is both silly and transparent. You might as well complain that I didn't address global warming, etc., etc.

              I did not initiate this exchange, you did. You did so based on the content of my comment, not the content of the diary. It's a bit late to attempt to change horses in midstream.

              I didn't expect that you would accept my suggestions. As I said, I've come to the reluctant conclusion that you are uninterested in any perspective that challenges your preconceptions.

              It's worth considering though, that those who refuse to take into account how they appear to others are seldom successful at organizing or mobilizing others.

              Continue as you please. We shall see if the circle widens or closes.

              Nothing human is alien to me.

              by WB Reeves on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 01:43:55 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site