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View Diary: No Republicans you didn't win, people want to try you for sedition (36 comments)

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  •  Cly - do the people signing the petition (8+ / 0-)

    understand that members of Congress have broad immunity for their actions, and non-actions, as legislators and cannot be arrested for sedition? In addition, the people at the Department of Justice, who have actually read the Constitution, would never embarrass the Department or themselves by trying to criminalize political acts.

    "let's talk about that"

    by VClib on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 10:13:53 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  I have no idea ... I just saw several groups (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      a2nite

      on facebook pass it around within the last hour

      I had read a few articles that said sedition was one they didn't have any immunity for.  Because daymn, some conspiracy author could have a field day with this issue in a fictional set up .... the teaparty/birthers have already written most of it.

      But I think even if they can't be tried, people want to let congress know that no, Boehner wasn't speaking for them... they are not happy, etc.

      Bumper sticker seen on I-95; "Stop Socialism" my response: "Don't like socialism? GET OFF the Interstate highway!"

      by Clytemnestra on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 10:19:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Hmm... NaNoWriMo ideas... (0+ / 0-)

        "Because daymn, some conspiracy author could have a field day with this issue in a fictional set up .... the teaparty/birthers have already written most of it."

        They could, couldn't they!? Nah, I'd rather write something fun, humorous...

        But I do think they can be tried. I think the real question revolves around "force," but I think the case could be made. Maybe a different section of the same statute? :)

    •  except we're now Manchuria (0+ / 0-)

      Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "I’m not the strapping young Muslim socialist that I used to be" - Barack Obama 04/27/2013

      by annieli on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 10:19:29 PM PDT

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    •  of course not.... (0+ / 0-)
      “He [God] will not be mocked,” the stenographer, apparently named Molly, yelled into the microphone as she was dragged off by security. “The greatest deception here is that this is not one nation under God. It never was. It would not have been. The Constitution would not have been written by Freemasons. They go against God. You cannot serve two masters. Praise be to God. Praise be to Jesus.”

      Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "I’m not the strapping young Muslim socialist that I used to be" - Barack Obama 04/27/2013

      by annieli on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 10:33:46 PM PDT

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    •  I don't see how it applies (4+ / 0-)

      The first half of Article I Section 6 reads:

      The senators and representatives shall receive a compensation for their services, to be ascertained by law, and paid out of the treasury of the United States. They shall in all cases, except treason, felony and breach of the peace, be privileged from arrest during their attendance at the session of their respective houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any speech or debate in either house, they shall not be questioned in any other place.
      Sedition is a felony, no?

      The end part may be alluded to as a get-out, but it's clearly only about what is said on the floor (and presumably how they voted too).  But the allegation raised, as far as I can tell, is that there was a seditious conspiracy to inflict damage upon the United States.  The critical point being co-ordination to do this outside of what is in the Congressional record.

      It's hard to see how any would-be prosecutor could put together a case likely to prevail, but equally I don't see how Congressmen are somehow immune from such a charge by their status.

      Fake candidates nominated by the GOP for the recalls: 6 out of 7. Fake signatures on the recall petitions: 4 out of 1,860,283.

      by GeoffT on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 11:01:46 PM PDT

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      •  As I wrote they have immunity for their actions (6+ / 0-)

        as legislators. If they were actually involved in acts of sedition, not partisan politics, outside of their actions as legislators of course they could be indicted. However, it seems as though people want to criminalize their political acts. There is nothing illegal in supporting and voting for a government shutdown or repealing an existing law. There is no requirement that any member of Congress vote in favor of any budget, CR or debt ceiling increase.  And there is nothing illegal in using the political leverage of a default to achieve public policy objectives. I don't like it, and think it's reprehensible, but the remedy is to vote them out of office, not try to criminalize their behavior.

        "let's talk about that"

        by VClib on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 11:19:30 PM PDT

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        •  Ah (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          VClib, Clytemnestra

          I was parsing your comment quite pickily, yes.

          I quite agree with you.  It's certainly frustrating that there seems no outlet to deal some severe penalty to those explicitly forsworn to uphold the Constitution who nonetheless wantonly endanger of the full faith and credit of the United States, the economy, people's economy security, people's lives, etc etc.  The petition is clearly an expression of that frustration.

          If there is a judicial remedy for that which would encompass "no debt ceiling hike without defunding Obamacare", it is hard to see where it could end with the conditionals: is voting against any debt ceiling bill to be considered seditious, no matter what riders are attached?  Where is the line drawn?  That's clearly far, far beyond the purview of the judiciary.

          There's impeachment, but that ain't going to happen when the perpetrators themselves hold those strings.

          Which leaves, as you say, the ballot box as the only retaliation for the potentially life-saving treatments denied, the avoidable deaths from flu that will no doubt result from the CDC's inhibited ability to monitor it, the $24 billion that we don't have now to do useful, life-saving things.

          Fake candidates nominated by the GOP for the recalls: 6 out of 7. Fake signatures on the recall petitions: 4 out of 1,860,283.

          by GeoffT on Wed Oct 16, 2013 at 11:49:24 PM PDT

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        •  The Koch Brothers have no such immunity! n/t (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Clytemnestra, GDbot

          It seems that all my life we have been bombing someone, teaching them a lesson. Every day I understand more deeply how violent we are. Violent to others and violent to ourselves. - Robert Olmstead

          by glitterscale on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 04:22:46 AM PDT

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          •  They certainly don't (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Wisper, glitterscale

            but the DoJ has no interest in criminalizing partisan politics and neither the Kochs, or anyone else on the list, will even be investigated for criminal activity. The First Amendment provides a lot of protection for political acts. Criminalizing politics is never a game progressives should encourage. It would not benefit us over the long term.

            "let's talk about that"

            by VClib on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 07:47:37 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  not only that (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Clytemnestra, VClib, Wisper

      but their actions don't even come close to meeting the legal definition of sedition.

      Oy, vay. This petition is stupid and embarrassing.

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