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  •  No, Gandhi's march to the sea was about (4+ / 0-)

    actually making salt and throwing off the British oppressors. It was about PR only insomuch as taking action against oppression always inspires people to oppose oppression if your action is successful.

    I think we're going to just disagree what non-violent protest means because to me it's all about the symbology.
    Then either you haven't read or haven't understood Gandhi and King. And yes, Gandhi did win. He may have died, but he still won. He broke the subcontinent free from the oppression of England. And he managed to minimize the violence of that despite the best efforts of the English.
    And no I'm not going to defend violent acts even if they mean well. I'm sorry but good intention isn't a get out of jail free card.
    So you admit that the issue isn't PR in general, but your specific view on the subject? Because originally you said your problem was the PR aspect, not the violence specifically. But now the problem is the violence in and of itself as a bad thing. And if that's the case then you should be condemning a lot of things, including the police in general. But you aren't, and you won't. How do you square that circle?
    •  granted it's not the best source (1+ / 0-)
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      But I think you should read the wiki entry on the salt march because it sounds a lot more symbolic and 'PR' then actual results.

      Also the whole reason behind using 'win' and 'lose' instead of win and lose was that I was trying to point out that it was not actually winning or losing. Yes Gandhi won but he did it by 'losing' which was the great break in non-violent protest.

      As to the rest of course I'm arguing my specific view just as you are arguing yours I would assume. I mean after all this is about a matter of opinion and as such you're going to see it a certain why and I will see it another way. And those views will exist inside a spectrum ranging from complete agreement to complete disagreement. Personally speaking I think we agree more then we disagree but I do object to violence. And the violence is tied to the how the situation looks. After all what is more sympathic? This happening or this happening without the fire bombings?

      PS I'm never going to condemn the police in general because that's a blanket statement that to me lacks nuance. Most of the time the police are just doing a job; they don't get to pick and choose the laws they enforce. And really I don't ever want them to.

      Der Weg ist das Ziel

      by duhban on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 07:42:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  FYI, when I say "condemn the police" (1+ / 0-)
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        I don't mean condemn the police as individuals, I mean condemn them as an institution. I know you won't do that either, but I want that to be clear. I don't think that every single police officer is a horrible person, I do think that they contribute to a racist and corrupt system in such a way that racism, sexism, etc. is continued.

        And there is a difference between doing something that will attract other people and doing something just because it will attract other people. Propaganda of the deed is not PR. Propaganda of the deed is doing, not pretending.

        •  fair enoughh (1+ / 0-)
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          and yes I'm not going to condemn them as an institution either. The police are not perfect but as an institution it's the best choice we have.

          As to the rest I just simply don't see a distinction there, sorry. To me there's nothing 'pretending' about being willing to take a baton to the face or being sprayed with a fire hose or taking a less then lethal plastic bullet or bean bag round. In point of fact I think that it's easier to destroy then it is to endure.

          I think we've about exhausted the topic or at least I think I have.

          You have a good day.

          Der Weg ist das Ziel

          by duhban on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 08:10:16 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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