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View Diary: Native Americans Declare War on Fracking. Canada Declares War on Native Americans. Updates. (188 comments)

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  •  :shrug: it's the closest to impartial we can make (1+ / 0-)
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    AoT

    it and I stand by my statement that it is a lot better then any alternative including doing what ever you feel like cause you feel like it.

    And no nothing in anything I've said here invokes morality. The PR thing is pure logic and rationality. The clearest and simplest and most effective path to the goal is to pay attention to how it looks because you can't garner sympathy if you think like a bunch of hoodlums by setting cars on fire.

    Come on AoT you should know by know that I have no problem saying what I think no matter what response I am going to get. This isn't about morality and I encourage to reread above as to why it should never be about morality.

    As to finding an answer, well I think that's a bit beyond the scope of the diary but the short answer is there is no easy answer to what is 'okay'. And thus that's why we have democracy because since there is no universal consent the next best alternative is the democracy.

    Der Weg ist das Ziel

    by duhban on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 07:58:08 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  No it's not the closest (6+ / 0-)
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      duhban, KenBee, jpmassar, caul, BYw, Laconic Lib

      I can think of numerous things that we could change that would make it more impartial. One: Change election day to a holiday and pay jurors $40 an hour for their time. And get rid of most drug laws.

      •  eh none of that is the police's fault though (0+ / 0-)

        Der Weg ist das Ziel

        by duhban on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 08:14:08 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  But it's still part of the institution n/t (3+ / 0-)
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          duhban, caul, BYw
          •  a completely separate part though (0+ / 0-)

            That's like blaming Bob cause John punched you in the face.

            You want those things to happen? Then you need to elect people to do so not blame the police.

            Der Weg ist das Ziel

            by duhban on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 08:22:25 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  No, not seperate part (3+ / 0-)
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              duhban, caul, BYw

              The laws enforced are the core part of what the police do. The laws enforced are the entire reason the police exist.

              •  and this is where I lose you (1+ / 0-)
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                AoT

                because yes I get that but the fundamental balance and check against the police is they don't get to decide what those laws will or will not be.

                The police didn't decide that pot should be illegal and beer shouldn't be. That was the legislative aspect of government.

                :sigh: I really just don't understand how you can't see that.

                Der Weg ist das Ziel

                by duhban on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 08:40:55 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  So then what stops the police from (2+ / 0-)
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                  duhban, caul

                  "just following orders"?

                  I mean, we could totally set up a legal framework for genocide in the US. We have before. By your rationalization the police should just ignore the immoral aspects of the law because it's their job. Were the cops that rounded up the Japanese sent to internment camps acting morally?

                  •  I know I said I was walking away (0+ / 0-)

                    and really I am I just wanted to answer this question really quickly as I think it's important.

                    Like any institution that requires following orders any police officer at any time can claim an order is unlawful. If it's an unlawful order then they don't have to follow it. Of course iiit's a lot more messy then that but there's always been an 'out' for such things.

                    Of course some orders are easier to show they are unlawful then others but it's not like police are some unthinking entity fixated on breaking some heads.

                    If you want to respond to that, by all means but now I reall am walking away. You stay well.

                    Der Weg ist das Ziel

                    by duhban on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 09:25:16 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

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