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View Diary: Native Americans Declare War on Fracking. Canada Declares War on Native Americans. Updates. (188 comments)

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  •  I'm not confusing anything (4+ / 0-)
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    duhban, churchylafemme, caul, BYw
    Now if you break the law the police are obligated to do something about it. Generally speaking that means you're getting arrested. If you choose to resist said arrest then you again are breaking the law (not to mention being incredibly dumb) and you can expect the officers to do what they can to execute their duties to place you in lawful custody.
    And you manage to avoid the question of violence completely. The police use violence and the threat of violence to execute their duties. This is fact. But you don't want to talk about violence. You want to talk about law. Law is, in this context, a justification for violence. You're confusing things by pretending that the police aren't the primary vector of violence in the US. They are.
    Violently resisting the police doesn't really make you anything other then an idiot in my opinion unless as I have previously said you have beyond extraordinary circumstances.
    And yet I haven't seen a single example of an acceptable use of violence except when the police use violence. Yes, the police in the US are very powerful, but that's a de facto argument against resistance, not a moral argument against it. And you seem to be trying to make a moral argument. Or at least a de jure argument.
    •  yes they do (1+ / 0-)
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      but that's because way too many people think they are too important, too high, too whatever to accept the fact that they just broke the law and are going to get arrested.

      As such violence is sadly a part of their job description. I'd love for that to be otherwise but it's not and will likely continue to be that way for a long time.

      The police are not the primary vector of violence in the US. That's just going to be a point of disagreement between us. I don't know what you consider 'acceptable use of force' for the police but I suspect we're not going to agree on that either.

      The police don't make the laws they merely enforce them and as long as they do so as close to impartially as you humanly can I'm fine with the job they're doing. For me it's just that simple.

      Der Weg ist das Ziel

      by duhban on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 08:21:11 PM PDT

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      •  So you support the use of violence (1+ / 0-)
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        except when it's used in protest. Why doesn't the use of violence make government illegitimate but does make protests illegitimate?

        •  I never support violence (0+ / 0-)

          I do think that sometimes it is justified such as when that angry 250 lb drunk is insisting that it's 'okay' that he drive or when someone decides to go on a shooting rampage or really anyone else decides that the rule of law is really just a collection of meaningless words and they can do whatever the fuck they want.

          As I said, I'm not an anarchist. Not an authoritarian either but if you're going to push me to choose between 'do whatever the fuck you want' and 'I am the law' well I'll choose the law because at least there there is some protection from abuse. Though my actual position is somewhere in the middle.

          I'd like you to explain though how fire bombing any one let alone police carrying out a lawful injunction is okay though.

          Der Weg ist das Ziel

          by duhban on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 08:45:05 PM PDT

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          •  You support the police but not violence? (2+ / 0-)
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            caul, BYw

            Even though the police use violence on a regular basis?

            I don't believe it.

            •  gods the police are much more then violence (1+ / 0-)
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              with all due respect your bias is blinding you on this topic.

              Having said that I'm walking away from this in general. I've said all I can think of and to go further would be to repeat myself. Besides I'm starting to get frustrated and it probably is only going to go down hill

              So you have a good night AoT and I leave you last word, namaste

              Der Weg ist das Ziel

              by duhban on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 08:51:25 PM PDT

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