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View Diary: I still can't get over this win. It was a Big F***ing Deal. (38 comments)

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  •  The debt, default thing; although, dangerous (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gooserock, kat68, gffish, Pluto

    because of the threat to destablize the US's and the world's economic system is an energy vacuuming operation.  In the mean time while we have had to do that, immigration reform and climate change legislation sits on the back burner.  So don't say that this is such a big victory because it was not for immigrants or those of us who take climate change seriously.  We stlll wait to get these areas addressed while we prepare for another financial fiasco in a few short months. The GOP agenda is to eat up the clock and avoid any serious discussion of issues the GOP want to avoid by forcing us to deal with anything else but the issues I have mentioned here.

    •  If you can't fathom that it was a big deal because (9+ / 0-)

      the party that is best suited to tackle your concerns just wiped the floor with the opposition, then I feel for you.

    •  IMO, there is NO victory (17+ / 0-)

      that can cover all our favorite issues, except regaining the house and keeping the senate in 2014, and even then, we ain't going to get it all.

      This was about much more than the debt, a possible default, or Obamacare. It was about the minorities effort to set a very dangerous precedent that they could undo elections and short circuit legislative battles by putting a gun to this country's head.

      I think it was HUGE, and I think it was a very big victory for this country. And part of that victory for me, is knowing that 74% of this country said they did not approve. That was comforting to me, and it's assuredly a big reason the GOP caved in the end.

      "A typical vice of American politics is the avoidance of saying anything real on real issues." Theodore Roosevelt.

      by StellaRay on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 08:54:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  As long as a small minority can obstruct the way (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        starduster

        they have done we are not moving forward.  Perhaps I just need to get used to the Affordable Care Act success which it is and leave it at that.  We have now lost 24 billion dollars in assets and taken up huge amounts of energy  that left us back further than where we started.  I see no cause for rejoicing in this.  Am I relieved that the government opened up again, yes?  But this extatic posturing is not warrented IMO.  If on the other hand we Democrats who stood firm against the Tea Party can consolidate this success to turn it into a defeat for the GOP going forward then I will feel alot more celebratory.  I already hear people saying well we have to help the GOP so we can have a strong two party system.  That kind of attitude is not going to defeat them.  As Obama found out finally, they only understand power and that is either they got it or they don't.  As far as I'm concerned they are unfit to govern and need to be defeated at every turn for the reckless disregard they have constanly shown.  The Kochs and their many front organizations are no doubt planning their next effort in obstruction or worse.  

        •  Defeatist attitudes will get us nowhere. If you (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mahakali overdrive, DMentalist

          don't understand that a win against the opposition party will bring you closer to your goals then there's no hope for you. Might as well cry in your beer.

          •  the REAL BFD: (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            a2nite, theBreeze

            In the Kos coverage of the deal on Wednesday:

             Senate-votes-on-shutdown-debt-ceiling-deal

            It also includes language allowing President Obama to waive the debt ceiling, which could be overridden by a vote of disapproval by Congress that could then be vetoed by the president;
                I haven't seen this item mentioned in the Kos coverage since then, so I really hope it didn't get weeded out in the final negotiations...it almost sounds too good to be true...But if the bill DID pass with that provision, that's something HUGE.  It's more than a victory...It's a HOME RUN!

                 If it's true, it essentially guarantees that all of this Debt Ceiling brinkmanship nonsense is OVER.   It gives Obama the unilateral power to WAIVE the debt ceiling, which can only be overridden by the 2/3 majority required to override a Presidential veto!

                 Yes, the Republicans can still shut down the government, but they CAN'T terrorize the country with the threat of default.  

               The only explanation I can think of is that Obama actually managed to turn the tables and use the Republicans' own blackmail strategy against them.  By letting it go to the 11th hour, the Republicans were in a position where there just wasn't time to debate the provision without passing the default deadline, so they had to either let it slide through, or allow the catastrophe of default, which would have only PROVEN why the provision is justified, and STRENGTHENED the President's bargaining power.    

                  Obama said that he wouldn't negotiate, that he would make no concessions, but in the end, he got the Republicans to make a concession, and a HUGE one.  

                 That the House would not only cave completely but also voluntarily AUGMENT the powers of the President is utterly stunning to me.  

                 If anyone reading this knows the details and can confirm that this provision did make it into the final bill, or must burst my bubble and inform me that it was indeed weeded out, please comment.  

                 But as I said, if it's true, it's an HISTORIC Victory for the President, even though I'm a little bummed that it precludes the possibility of ever seeing the Treasury mint that 6 Trillion Dollar Coin...

            •  according to Wonkblog, no (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              DMentalist
              We've been using the McConnell mechanism to raise the debt ceiling since 2011. If we made the McConnell mechanism permanent — something the Obama administration favors — it would basically disarm the debt ceiling forever. But last night's deal didn't make the McConnell mechanism permanent. It's only valid until Feb. 7, 2014.

              "No, we didn't get rid of the debt ceiling forever"

              (I think the August 2011 deal allowed for two debt ceiling increases using this mechanism.)

              "I am not sure how we got here, but then, I am not really sure where we are." -Susan from 29

              by HudsonValleyMark on Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 02:45:54 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  This reminds me.... (0+ / 0-)
      So don't say that this is such a big victory because it was not for immigrants or those of us who take climate change seriously.  We stlll wait to get these areas addressed while we prepare for another financial fiasco in a few short months. The GOP agenda is to eat up the clock....
      I wonder if people remember that what we are dealing with -- and have dealt with over the past month -- is the Fiscal Cliff!  We've been fighting this zombie issue since last December.

      We haven't moved an inch since December 2012 -- until now. And it still sits in front of us to be slayed all over again again in a month or so. Like it never even happened.

      The GOP political strategy on display here is the economic failure of the domestic US economy, a goal that was established in December 2008. They have certainly had significant success, although President Obama's cabinet and close advisors in matters of defense and finance -- have been the wind under the GOP's wings.


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      by Pluto on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 11:10:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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