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View Diary: Snowden's Personal Revelations (369 comments)

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  •  Watergate was an actual crime (0+ / 0-)

    Snowden/Greenwald continue to reveal a system that has the potential for abuse.  While that is an important discussion to have, the methodology of their reveal is problematic for two reasons:

    1.  We've known about this systemic data collection since 2006.
    2.  They're stealing government secrets and trafficking them all over the world, with a realistic chance that foreign governments could gain access

    So you have a crime committed by Snowden to reveal... the potential for crimes by the NSA.

    Sorry.  This is not the way to solve the Patriot Act. It is vigilante politics, no different than Scooter Libby and with as much propaganda function as those ridiculous James O'Keefe videos.  Greenwald's editing is about as trustworthy.

    •  How naive of us to imagine that (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      stevemb, happymisanthropy

      the mere "potential" for abuse might lead to actual abuse within a massive, super-secret organization staffed with fallible (like the rest of us) human beings, and lacking any meaningful or effective oversight.

      •  The Patriot Act (0+ / 0-)

        It's a bill passed by Congress, signed by two Presidents, and is available to read.  Love it or hate it, that's democracy.

        We can and should advocate for reform without needing to cheer on lawless libertarian ass-hats like Snowden.

        Just like the right, if it had any class, would've made the case for the Iraq War without smearing Valerie Plame with classified documents.  

        How we fight is just as important as what we fight for.  The Tea Party showed just how disgraceful a win-at-all-costs agenda is.

    •  The systematic data collection was not front page (5+ / 0-)

      news, and made clear as a fact, to the American people since 2006. Everyone knows that, even you.

      For as long as it's been going on, if you brought it up, someone would call you a conspiracy theorist and walk right by it. One can't do that today. Thank you, Mr. Snowden.

      Now, it is a widely-known fact, and unsurprisingly, the people don't like it and are pushing government to correct it.

      You glaringly ignore that there are really no channels for a whistleblower to go through which aren't themselves intent on silencing whistleblowers. Why are you pretending the options are something other than to remain silent entirely, or to get your ass nailed to the wall professionally, and even personally?


      Actual Democrats: the surest, quickest, route to More Democrats. And actually addressing our various emergencies.

      by Jim P on Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 04:52:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Totally wrong (0+ / 0-)

        The FISA scandal in 2006 was huge news.  I actually called Verizon to file a complaint about my metadata at the time.  

        I'm glad Snowden has sparked a renewed debate, it's actually a great thing that it's happened.  

        But I don't have to support his illegal methods, nor would I ever support that kind of lawless, reckless blow against my government.

        There are better ways to win the hearts and minds.  I'd like to think we're above Scooter Libby nihilism.

        •  The FISA Scandal of 2006 (0+ / 0-)

          was huge news for like 4 days. Then it disappeared from the news cycle. Hell, I had people telling me I was paranoid because I wouldn't talk about some things on the phone long after the scandal.

          It certainly did not convey the extent and depth of the Government Stalking as the recent revelations have.

          Nor did it inspire Congress to do anything substantive about it. In fact, FISA as it existed was extended two years later. With retroactive immunity for all concerned in the previous law-breaking.

          Now, we just had almost enough votes in Congress to turn things around. And the writer of the Patriot Act has introduced a Bill to deny NSA the ability for bulk collection.

          Totally different.

          So much for the false equivalence between any previous revelations, and the current crop.

          You did not answer the key point, though you keep wishing reality were different: What's your choice if you see something hideously wrong and anyone you'd report it to would quash it. And likely you. There's 'silence.'

          Okay: Quashed, or Silence. Name a third choice.


          Actual Democrats: the surest, quickest, route to More Democrats. And actually addressing our various emergencies.

          by Jim P on Sat Oct 19, 2013 at 08:20:22 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  What should have happened (0+ / 0-)

            Snowden should have leaked only a few key documents, say the ones on the PRISM system.  He should have stayed in this country and made his case as a whistleblower.  Even if he'd been convicted, his sentence would likely be about the same as John Kiriakou (32 months, but likely less with parole).

            Kiriakou leaked far more important information than Snowden (proving Bush torture was intentional) and did it the right way.  

            I'm sorry you can't see how reckless Snowden has been with illegally stolen state secrets.  

            Real whistleblowers are heroes precisely because they face the music and make their case for love of country.  Not to go hang in Russia.

    •  ...To Reveal Several Crimes (0+ / 0-)

      1. Multiple counts of perjury (revelations of facts contrary to sworn testimony).

      2. Multiple counts of fraud (revelations of sabotage in the guise of security review).

      On the Internet, nobody knows if you're a dog... but everybody knows if you're a jackass.

      by stevemb on Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 05:59:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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