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View Diary: "Medicaid is Welfare. It's right to expect repayment." With poll. (60 comments)

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  •  You raise interesting (7+ / 0-)

    points.  It is no more fair than the bizarre situation that for the middle class if you get sick when you are 64 you currently have to pay for everything but if you turn 65 you automatically have Medicare.  So poor people at 64 are on the hook and rich people who are 65 are not.

    In effect, the law currently assumes that anyone over 65 is indigent and anyone under 65 can pay all their medical expenses. ( Unless you are really poor, in which case Medicaid will help out.)  

    So in your example, if the person was middle class, the 35 year old would leave nothing to her heirs, and the 65 year old would leave an estate.   Just the oposite of the Medicaid example you give.

    That is why I suport Medicare for all-  even though itwould reduce my own income.  In the medicare for all scenario, everyone has the same insurance, everyone pays for it via their taxes, and those taxes are progressive.  I don't think that healthcare should be predicated on leaving estates to heirs.

    That said, I am not at all opposed to individuals saving and leaving estates to their heirs (within limits- no dynasties).  In that case, they are choosing not to spend the money in their own lifetimes, but choose to give it to their kids.  I am opposed to individuals gaming the system so that Other people pay for their health care while they "save" the money to give to their kids.  Does that make my position clear?

    As my father used to say,"We have the best government money can buy."

    by BPARTR on Thu Oct 24, 2013 at 06:02:45 AM PDT

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    •  Me too. We need Medicare for All (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      susanthe, Hawksana, tardis10, beverlywoods

      end of story.

      Medicare is one of the best-run most popular programs in America.

      And the funny thing is that it is a:

      universal, government run single payer medical program.

      So to all the people who keep pushing the fact that "America will never accept a single payer program" - WE ALREADY HAVE

      There is no qualification for Medicare except for being 65.

      Why do the Republicans want to means test it? So that they can dismantle it and turn it into a welfare program just like we are discussing in this thread. And America might be dumb enough to fall for it.

      They will try to appeal to Americans by saying "Why should you pay for Bill Gates healthcare?" and act like the poor and middle class are paying for healthcare of the rich and get them to agree to means testing without seeing that the real issue is that the 1% doesn't want to pay for the healthcare of the 99%.

      We should all get healthcare - no exceptions. Doesn't matter about age, class, wealth, whatever, we should all have healthcare.

      “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR

      by Phoebe Loosinhouse on Thu Oct 24, 2013 at 06:11:14 AM PDT

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      •  Medicare does not pay for long term care (0+ / 0-)

        If you need to be in a nursing home, you pay until you qualify for Medicaid, then Medicaid pays.

        Estate recovery is perfectly fair, in my opinion. If taxpayers pay for your dad's long term care, and you don't, then why do you get to inherit his assets? Those assets should pay for his care.

        There are some exemptions, surviving spouses are not kicked out, I'm sure that the laws could be improved, etc.

        But the basic idea, that your assets should be used for your care, seems fair to me.

        "If Republicans were once the daddy party, now they're the abusive ex-husband with a substance abuse problem party." Henry Blodgett 11/13/2013

        by Urban Owl on Thu Oct 24, 2013 at 07:41:15 AM PDT

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        •  No one said Medicare paid for long term care (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          tardis10, SingleVoter

          I think most people know that it doesn't.

          The scope of this discussion to restate it for those who aren't following is:

          Should low income people over the age of 55 with assets have their estates charged for routine medical services and healthcare simply because they are over 55 when someone with the same income and assets receiving the same services who is 54 receives it gratis in the same program

          We are not discussing long term care

          “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR

          by Phoebe Loosinhouse on Thu Oct 24, 2013 at 07:58:37 AM PDT

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          •  You proposed Medicare for all (0+ / 0-)

            As the solution to the Medicaid estate-recovery. The issue of estate-recovery comes up in practice for long term care.

            And to your narrow question  which seems based on questionable information, no, it's not fair, and there should be a claim on assets for everyone covered by Medicaid for whatever reason.

            With the appropriate exemptions for surviving spouse, etc. that currently apply for old people.

            The basic point, that taxpayers should not subsidize inheritance, should still hold.

            "If Republicans were once the daddy party, now they're the abusive ex-husband with a substance abuse problem party." Henry Blodgett 11/13/2013

            by Urban Owl on Thu Oct 24, 2013 at 08:28:18 AM PDT

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            •  Sorry I missed your point and it's a good one (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              beverlywoods

              People in more enlightened countries
              than ours provide cradle to grave medical care and that is what I would desire for us.

              That removes the entire question of inheritance from the equation. A universal social contract to care for the ill in any circumstance, regardless of age or wealth simply doesn't address the issue because it doesn't have to. Those countries get their pay-off from any estate in advance by charging reasonable taxes on the wealthy while they live.

              I did use the word enlightened. We are not enlightened in this country. People spend way too much time on trying to figure out if someone "deserves" to eat or have healthcare when other countries have simply said "if they're human, they're in!".

              “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR

              by Phoebe Loosinhouse on Thu Oct 24, 2013 at 08:41:25 AM PDT

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