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View Diary: Arizona Public Service involved in political scandal to stop rooftop solar (88 comments)

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  •  Yep. With net metering, a customer with (19+ / 0-)
    What about the people who have rooftop solar  
    And help supply power to the grid with their excess power?  
    rooftop solar loans power to the electric company in the middle of the day when it costs the company more to generate it and it's potentially in short supply, and gets repaid by the company at night when there is plenty of power and it's cheap.  
    APS has lied continuously; which other utilities are doing the same?  
    Probably most of them.  

    "My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." -- Sen Carl Schurz 1872

    by Calamity Jean on Fri Oct 25, 2013 at 07:29:53 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  So it's a loan when it goes from a citizen to (10+ / 0-)

      The utility company?  But it's a debt when it goes from the utility company to the citizen?

      It's going to be a rude awakening to power companies when the majority supply their own power and even worse when they can store it.

      •  Storage will have to get a lot cheaper. (8+ / 0-)
        It's going to be a rude awakening to power companies when the majority supply their own power and even worse when they can store it.  
        Right now electrical storage is fairly pricey, so it's not worth storing it.  

        Since there will always be customers that can't generate all their own power, it makes more sense both individually and socially for customers that temporarily are generating more power than they are using to put the excess on the grid for use by their neighbors that are temporarily short.  

        "My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." -- Sen Carl Schurz 1872

        by Calamity Jean on Fri Oct 25, 2013 at 10:18:26 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Electrical storage sucks (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          highacidity, oldpotsmuggler

          In my lifetime computers have gotten a million times faster (or something) and batteries are only about three times better. Batteries suck, just a little less than tech like hydrogen. You can do pumped water storage, but it's very inefficient and individuals sure as hell aren't going to be doing it.

          (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
          Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

          by Sparhawk on Sat Oct 26, 2013 at 07:34:46 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  utility managers are old and provincial (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        highacidity

        in their thinking.

        stuff is happening so fast, in 10 years they will be out of business

    •  I wonder if those costs are equal? The energy (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Calamity Jean, oldpotsmuggler

      Your system supplies during the day and the energy repaid at night?

    •  One of the biggest advantages of solar (13+ / 0-)

      "rooftop solar loans power to the electric company in the middle of the day when it costs the company more to generate it and it's potentially in short supply"

      Absolutely.  Power demand is highest in the summer during the daytime.  Everyone is running their ACs and swamp coolers because it's 105-110 out.  This happens to be the time of day when solar is cranking out the most power.  If you have solar power and you're using the AC, then you're not sapping the grid.  If you're at work and you leave the thermostat turned up while you're gone, that's extra power fed to the grid.  All without APS having to build more powerplants.

      •  That's it. Potentially the greatest advantage to (5+ / 0-)

        electricity suppliers is the reduction in peak supply requirements from having lots of folks with solar systems. Reduced peak demand means reduced need to build whole new stations, which is far and away the biggest cost and most complex decision for generators.
        In other words, the economic value to the electricity supplier of the power added to their grid by solar households exceeds the utility's cost of producing that power, and even exceeds the price the utility would have charged others for that power. Yes, it can be economic for utilities to pay solar households more for their contribution to the grid than the utility would charge others for that power. (This is the case where you have expanding population demands bumping up against existing infrastructure capacity - like where I live in Queensland, Australia.)

        •  If there is an economic advantage to (0+ / 0-)

          Utility companies why hasn't the price of energy decreased for everyone?

          •  Economic advantage does not translate necessarily (0+ / 0-)

            into change in price to consumers when you have a monopolistic supplier. The utility is better off because they have deferred/delayed having to finance new generating stations. In my part of the world, the upsurge in solar roof-top installations along with the utility company building a number of relatively small gas turbine on-demand generators (easily turned on/off depending on network load) has basically overcome the need for a new massive base-load generating power station. But they won't be dropping prices because there is always extra network maintenance that can be done. Monopolistic utility corporations will generally return a good profit to their investors and if there is extra to be got, it will be used on beefing up their infrastructure and providing their managers with a more comfortable existence. (A lot of bad corporate behaviour isn't directly the fault of the owners, but is due to managers doing what they can get away with while owners may or may not have the wherewithall to monitor and control their managers.)

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