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View Diary: NYPD's Ray Kelly Booed Off Stage at Brown University Before Lecture on "Proactive Policing" (250 comments)

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  •  Exactly. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    greengemini, BvueDem, Jay C, VClib

    They're no worse than the tea partiers who shut down town hall meetings on health insurance reform.

    •  Ouch! False equivalence is painful. (8+ / 0-)

      Stop and frisk has been ruled unconstitutional.
      ACA has been ruled constitutional.

      http://www.nytimes.com/...

      A federal judge ruled on Monday that the stop-and-frisk tactics of the New York Police Department violated the constitutional rights of minorities in the city, repudiating a major element in the Bloomberg administration’s crime-fighting legacy.

      I'm a Vietnam Era vet. I'm also an Erma Bombeck Era vet. When cussing me out and calling me names please indicate which vet you would like to respond to your world changing thoughts.

      by Just Bob on Tue Oct 29, 2013 at 07:23:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  This is a load of shit. (0+ / 0-)

      It's their university that took their money to bring this guy in to lecture them. That means them sitting there and passively listening or at best being funneled into a structured series of question-and answers, one at a time. These are people who don't get air time, unlike the Tea Party, that gets cameras panting at their heels every time they put on their tri-corner hats. Free speech is commodified, and these students don't own enough of it to get heard most of the time, so they have to take the opportunities they can get. Especially given that it was their money used to bring the guy there.

      I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

      by SouthernLiberalinMD on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 07:41:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  So, freedom of speech is not a right... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        VClib, orestes1963

        ...but, rather, a privilege which exists only for the truly deserving, as decided by, I guess, you.

        I'm seeing some potential flaws in that arrangement.

        •  No. For God's sakes, respond to what I'm saying. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Just Bob

          Freedom of speech is no longer equally apportioned out to all citizens, if it ever was. Far from it. Any more than we're a nation of thriving small businesses, all competing with each other in a healthy way and with equal access to resources and opportunity. The ability to express yourself freely in public has been turned into a commodity that you buy either with money, status, or both. Those who have neither enough money nor enough status don't get heard. That's the other part of free expression, you know: it's not just who gets to speak but who gets heard. If you're parked a 1/2 mile away in a "free speech zone" you can speak all you want but you don't get heard. Ray Kelly can get heard whenever he damned well pleases. Given that, he has more "freedom of expression" than 90% of the rest of his fellow citizens. Also, he's done his damned best to take away what little ability his fellow citizens have to express themselves freely in public, by sending out thugs to kettle and pepper spray them in the face when they do.

          In short, Ray Kelly has no business whinging about his lack of freedom of speech, and acting like he is a victim here is one of the most toolish things I've seen in while.

          I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

          by SouthernLiberalinMD on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 08:26:37 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  What you seem to be saying... (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            VClib, orestes1963

            ...is that the degree of freedom one should have in their speech is dependent on how much access they have to addressing the public in other instances.  That seems to me such a subjective way to address the subject that I can't imagine it being a workable approach.  You may as well just say that free speech belongs to whomever can amass the largest crowd of shouters.

            •  No, it isn't. It's about access to the (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Just Bob

              infrastructures of public communication, i.e., the airwaves, and it's also about what happens to you when you do express your views. Do you get a speaking fee? Or do you get kettled and pepper sprayed in the face?

              I tried to go online to find a similar bear head...but when I searched “Big Bear Head” it gave me a San Diego craigslist ad entitled “Big Bear needs some quick head now” and then I just decided to never go on the internet again.--Jenny Lawson

              by SouthernLiberalinMD on Wed Oct 30, 2013 at 02:57:38 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  What I'm having trouble getting... (0+ / 0-)

                ... is how to decide which speakers we are to tolerate being shouted down in the name of free speech, and which ones we should insist be allowed to speak in the name of free speech. Because I don't see a clear dividing line. Does the local anti-abortion protester have the right to shout down the head of a local pro-choice group?  Does a tea party activist have the right to shout down Michael Moore?  

                I'm not sure how the math works with this, but I suspect more often than not we'd wind up with supporting the shouting down of people we don't like, and condemning the shouting down of people we do like.  At least that's what I've see here countless times.  And it strikes me as a double standard, and I try to avoid that.

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