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View Diary: ME-Sen: Shenna Bellows (D), "Edward Snowden is a whistle-blower, not a criminal" (31 comments)

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  •  Unfortunately, he's ~not~ a whistleblower... (5+ / 0-)

    Whether you agree with what Snowden did or not, he isn't a whistleblower.

    That's because whistleblowers status is specifically called out by various laws and regulations as to what you do and how you do it, in order to qualify.

    And grabbing a bunch of data and fleeing to another country isn't part of those laws, even if he thought he was doing the right thing.

    You know what, Stuart, I LIKE YOU. You're not like the other people, here, in the trailer park.

    by Mithras Angel on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 02:12:28 PM PST

    •  Well, y'know what? (14+ / 0-)

      I think he IS a whistleblower.

      I think he grabbed the data and fled b/c he knew he would be prosecuted/persecuted. Which has happened with many, many other whistleblowers over the past 12 years, under two presidents.

      Running is the only intelligent choice in those circumstances. Hell, the U.S. tried to stop the President of Bolivia in Europe, just out of fear of what Snowden could reveal.

      I for one am delighted to know that they are tapping my phone and reading everything I post online. Always thought it was possible: this past Sunday's NYT had a very long story about the NSA hoovering everything up.

      Before Snowden, we could only suspect. He literally blew the whistle.

      Irony takes a worse beating from Republicans than Wile E. Coyote does from Acme. --Tara the Antisocial Social Worker

      by Youffraita on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 02:20:40 PM PST

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      •  So odd to see these 'Dems' (here and below) not (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Sandino, lotlizard

        even commenting on the topic: we have a strong challenger to good old "moderate" Collins.  Just centrist/authoritarian focus on bad, bad Snowden.  

        Typical focus on the messenger, not the message.  Again.

        Retired Pie Warrior. Substance over Sh*t Flinging (as best as I am able). Sarcasm for and Derision of Happy Clappy True Believers / Entitlement "Reformers" / NSA cheerleaders (yes, significant overlap) still available 24/7, you betcha!

        by JVolvo on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 09:56:00 PM PST

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      •  Youf - you are cerainly welcomed to your (0+ / 0-)

        own opinion but under the law Snowden doesn't meet the tests of a whistleblower and therefore won't be able to successfully use those protections in his defense, if he is ever captured and prosecuted.

        "let's talk about that"

        by VClib on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 09:04:51 AM PST

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        •  No worries -- (0+ / 0-)

          -- it's unlikely he'll ever be captured or prosecuted -- and (thankfully) there will be another Snowden one of these days.  

          As Dems, we can only hope that the next 'Snowden' will leak information during a Republican administration, since many Dems seem to have a hard time recognizing whistleblowers when viewed through their particular political prism.

          Republican administration = Whistleblower
          Democraic administration = Criminal

          all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

          by 4kedtongue on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 09:22:32 AM PST

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          •  I think Snowden will be captured and prosecuted (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Wisper

            It may take years, but if the US wants to find and repatriate someone, anywhere in the world, it usually succeeds.

            "let's talk about that"

            by VClib on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 09:54:05 AM PST

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            •  Not gonna happen... (0+ / 0-)

              ...very happy to say that there are too many places in this world where Snowden would be welcomed and protected.

              The US already tried to 'repatriate' (translation: kidnap) him by forcing down a plane with a head of state on it -- and looking VERY foolish in the process.  

              Chances are pretty good that Russia will grant him permanent asylum if he's unable to travel to another country.  And we all know that the US won't be able to lay a finger on him if he stays there.  

              The best you can hope for, VCLib, is that the US will continue to persecute him.  Plenty of Dems are on board for that.  I realize that comes nowhere near the kind of satisfaction many would like to experience wrt Snowden, but y'all just gotta suck it up and make plans to keep the next 'Snowden' in the country where he/she can be tortured and incarcerated without pesky interference from Human Rights groups.

              :)

              all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

              by 4kedtongue on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 10:09:58 AM PST

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              •  The US isn't going anywhere (0+ / 0-)

                Snowden is what, 28?

                He is most likely very safe in Russia but there are plenty of other countries that will cash him in with US for favors.

                Its not going to take a Seal Team Six to extract the kid.  He'll get sent home.

                Красота спасет мир --F. Dostoevsky

                by Wisper on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 12:59:56 PM PST

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                •  Nah. (0+ / 0-)

                  I wouldn't go out and by party streamers and a coupla kegs just yet if I were you, Wisper.   He's gonna live a LONG life far from the clutches of those who would torture and persecute him in the name of 'Rule of Law' (what a joke!)  

                  And the more this government grouses about his freedom, and the longer he stays free, the more emboldened the next 'Snowden' will become.  Fingers crossed, at least.

                  I'm amused that there are some Democrats who find that galling.  Oh well, it's a Big Tent, I guess -- they'll let just about anyone in...even the button-upped, Agnew-esque 'Law and Order' types.

                  all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

                  by 4kedtongue on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 01:35:16 PM PST

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                  •  Im fresh out of streamers (0+ / 0-)

                    I'm not looking forward to, nor hoping for, anything of the kind.

                    I honestly don't care.  You can try to pin whatever insult about what kind of "type" I am on me if its a fun hobby, but I have 1,000,0001 things to worry about before I get to a fugitive working helpdesk jobs in Russia.

                    Like I said, if he stays in Russia I'm sure he'll be fine for a long time.  I just doubt that will happen over years.  Eventually he'll want to go somewhere else, visit his family, see his home, come to the US for a funeral or a wedding or whatever.  He's 28 and he will have a flagged passport, outstanding court-signed warrant and red-alert listing on every international travel watch agency on the planet hanging over his head from now until he's dead or arrested.

                    I wish him luck and hope he finds happiness in his new country.   If you are right that all kinds of countries will line up to embrace him and offer him safe harbor then I guess he can bounce around between those locations for a long time.  But I suspect it will only be a matter of years before he's in a US Court room.  

                    I get the impression this is some kind of critical issue for you.  Okay.  I do not share your passion on this but I suppose there are plenty of issues that I focus on disproportionately compared to others, even others that generally agree with me.  I guess I just can't recall off-hand my denigrating type-labels I use to refer to them.

                    I'm sure I must have some.

                    Красота спасет мир --F. Dostoevsky

                    by Wisper on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 02:34:06 PM PST

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                •  P.S. (0+ / 0-)
                  In these times of secrecy and abuse of power there is only one solution: transparency. . . .
                  When whistleblowers come forward we need to fight for them, so others will be encouraged. When they are gagged, we must be their voice. When they are hunted, we must be their shield. When they are locked away, we must free them. Giving us the truth is not a crime. This is our data, our information, our history. We must fight to own it.

                  Courage is contagious.

                  Sarah Harrison

                  all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

                  by 4kedtongue on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 01:39:44 PM PST

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    •  The Whistleblower laws rely on subjective judging (0+ / 0-)

      and unless there's a really egregious misuse on either side if it, not a debate that will go anywhere and will likely devolve quickly.

      While you dream of Utopia, we're here on Earth, getting things done.

      by GoGoGoEverton on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 02:32:31 PM PST

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    •  exactly. he stole documents. he is a thief. (0+ / 0-)

      I pray for his eventual arrest.

      •  Pray hard. (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        shaharazade, Woody, annominous, JVolvo

        Pray that we are powerful enough to down the next plane we suspect might be carrying him.  Pray to your God on your hands and knees, in service to The Crown -- The Powers who Edward Snowden has so offended.

        Pray that He serves up this criminal to be Tried and Punished for his sins against The State.  Sins which benefit all the Wrong People and harm all The Right People.

        Pray, RNmakingsense.  Pray hard and don't stop praying until your prayers are answered and Good has vanquished Evil and Edward Snowden knows Justice like Chelsea Manning.

        Amen.

        all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

        by 4kedtongue on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 03:31:34 PM PST

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