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View Diary: When is enough going to be enough for Senate Democrats to go nuclear? (76 comments)

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  •  It seems like Reid has the votes (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TomP, drmah

    If, and only, if the Republicans launch a filibuster and don't back down.  It feels like some Democrats insist in trying for a more diplomatic solution before invoking nuclear war.

    •  Yeah .. and exactly what are they expecting (16+ / 0-)

      from the Republicans ... after getting stabbed 2783562 times, they think the 2783563rd time will somehow be different? Sigh.

      "What could BPossibly go wrong??" -RLMiller "God is just pretend." - eru

      by nosleep4u on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 08:16:58 AM PDT

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      •  I guess I'd say (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        psnyder, BleacherBum153

        Look at the overall acceptance of the Republican Party, and of the Tea Party, in specific.  

        I think if you look at those numbers, then a convincing argument could be made that it has worked, as a political tactic, to allow them to continue making more and more extreme demands and commentary.  

        In a way, you don't want to be giving the Republicans the chance to play the victim.  Even though I disagree with their use of the filibuster, I think so few people are aware of its misuse by Republicans, that going " nuclear"  would simply lead to sympathy for Repubs.  

        However, I can see a possible use for the nuclear option closer to the elections.  It would serve as a means of engaging the base if it's done closer to the elections.

        Streichholzschächtelchen

        by otto on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 08:23:43 AM PDT

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        •  Pretzel logic (5+ / 0-)
          In a way, you don't want to be giving the Republicans the chance to play the victim.  Even though I disagree with their use of the filibuster, I think so few people are aware of its misuse by Republicans, that going " nuclear"  would simply lead to sympathy for Repubs.
          If very few people are aware of the Republicans misuse of the filibuster then going nuclear shouldn't have any impact on the Democrats public image.
          •  That's entirely up to the media to decide (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            BleacherBum153

            Like most events during Obama's presidency, one side is free to perform acts of sabotage in the shadows for years and the other side gets national media scrutiny for days when the shit finally hits the fan.

            (-2.38, -3.28) Independent thinker

            by TrueBlueDem on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 09:06:56 AM PDT

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            •  So because the media won't be fair, (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Capt Crunch, Bear

              we'll just bemoan that fact and let this filibuster abuse continue?

              "The R's will say mean things, the media won't be fair!"

              Gee, it's almost like this excuse gets trotted out every time there's an opportunity for the Democrats to actually hit back and/or actually go for progressive legislation.

              The R's will continue to abuse the filibuster. The Dems will not do that because "grownups". Time to end that.

              Banking on the American people to be able to sort all this out and declare the adult in the room the winner is a very big bet. -Digby

              by Boogalord on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 11:38:04 AM PDT

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              •  You're right (0+ / 0-)

                Even if Reid goes nuclear, he will not have the support of his full caucus.  It will fail.  

                Now that we've identified how bad they are at supporting bold decision making, do you want them to make bold decisions?

                Streichholzschächtelchen

                by otto on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 06:02:41 PM PDT

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            •  Amazingly passive viewpoint (0+ / 0-)

              First, I don't think we should sit on our butts and do nothing. The "Talking Filibuster", at a minimum, needs to be the new rule.

              Second, Democrats need to respond to any unfair media coverage aggressively.

          •  You could be right (0+ / 0-)

            Where in my comment do you see me saying that these are my opinions?  

            That's one of the main problems in discussion around here.  I'm not an opinion writer.  I'm someone who is looking at a situation, and I'm relying on the things I've seen in similar situations to suggest a possible way that it could turn out.  

            Do you really really think that people only express their own opinion about how things will turn out?  That seems weird.  

            That seems to be an irrational way of discussing the possible fallout of things.  I'm pretty sure that you recognize that things can go differently that you currently believe, yes?

            I don't care that you want Democrats to be stronger, they aren't.  So if Reid were to do this, the Republican media would press very hard against Dems.  

            Now, given what you know about establishment Dems, do you believe that they would stand up for Reid?  No.  They would creak and break under media pressure.  

            So it seems strange to me that you can have such a dim view of the Democratic Party, yet also expect to them to stand up behind the idea of going nuclear.  

            That's twisted.  Don't you agree?  It's a little like the conservative notion that the government can't do anything right, but the US military is so good it's like God himself handcrafted each member from gold.

            Streichholzschächtelchen

            by otto on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 06:01:38 PM PDT

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        •  Classic "grown-up in the room" thinking (0+ / 0-)

          Can't make any kind of bold move against the Republicans because it might backfire... Somehow.

          Banking on the American people to be able to sort all this out and declare the adult in the room the winner is a very big bet. -Digby

          by Boogalord on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 11:34:16 AM PDT

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          •  Sorry (0+ / 0-)

            I guess I shouldn't make commentary about something like this.

            Maybe in the future you can give me tips on how to discuss something in a fashion that will allow me to be more confrontational and provocative.  

            That way, I can annoy people more.  TIA!

            Streichholzschächtelchen

            by otto on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 05:55:33 PM PDT

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      •  I think they are expecting Republicans (0+ / 0-)

        To throw a hissy fit for a few days, then cave.

        •  Reid is right. Throw the other 2 judges up too. (0+ / 0-)

          If they filibuster all three, I do think we will see the Nuclear Option. But timing is everything you know - he needs Yellen, Watts through and ENDA too, if he goes nuclear now then Yellen/Watts can still get through but ENDA will die.

      •  I am so sick they (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        rlochow

        haven't done this yet. What is Obama and Harry waiting for. Give me a break!

        "America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between" Oscar Wilde

        by angry hopeful liberal on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 09:22:56 AM PDT

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    •  What exactly is this "Nuclear war" (0+ / 0-)

      And what are the drawbacks to using it?? Why not?  

      "We need a revolution away from the plutocracy that runs Government."

      by hangingchad on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 08:44:34 AM PDT

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      •  If Democrats are seen as out for blood (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Mr MadAsHell

        That may stiffen Republican resolve to not cave the next time the debt ceiling comes up.

        I think the ideal scenario may be for some Republicans to give up to avoid Reid invoking the nuclear option, leading to GOP in-fighting over who is and isn't a real Republican.

        •  Can't let the Dems be seen as strong (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Boogalord

          That might stop the Republicans from implementing their agenda!

          Government and laws are the agreement we all make to secure everyone's freedom.

          by Simplify on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 10:59:19 AM PDT

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        •  Oh please (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          len chaitin
          That may stiffen Republican resolve to not cave the next time the debt ceiling comes up.
          Seriously?

          The R's are going to be as obstructionist as possible, all the time, no matter what. There is literally nothing the Dems can do to shake them out of that, and there's nothing they can do to make it worse.

          I thought the R's were oh-so-defeated and discredited after the shutdown debacle? Hasn't it been made clear to the point where even the mainstream media had to admit that the R's are needlessly obstructive? I remember everyone on this site all giddy over how defeated they were because of the shutdown and now it's "oh no you can't do that, then the Republicans will be resurgent!"

          Well, which one is it?

          Banking on the American people to be able to sort all this out and declare the adult in the room the winner is a very big bet. -Digby

          by Boogalord on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 11:58:10 AM PDT

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