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View Diary: True or False: Physically forcing someone to have sex is rape. (139 comments)

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  •  You ASK them (2+ / 0-)
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    jplanner, angelajean

    what is going on in their mind.  If it is important enough that you want something from them, then it is important enough that you take the take to ensure that you are both on the same page and at the same level of understanding of what's going on, what's being said and what's being agreed to.

    This in no way implies mind reading.  It implies clear communication, an awareness of places where communication can falter and a sense of responsibility that you don't simply ask in a way that gets the answer you want to hear.

    "Yes" is too simple a term (and too easily coerced a term to mean that.  Responsibility means you have to work a bit harder to ensure shared understanding of what has been agreed upon

    It isn't nearly as complicated as you make it out to be.  There's no mind reading or magic tricks involved.  Just a recognition that one of the myths of communication is that it has "magically" occurred without some careful attention and a bit of investment on the part of the people engaging in it to not assume.

    People do this all the time in business negotiations.  Aren't negotiations about sex as important?  In fact, all interpersonal negotiations.

    Thaant

    Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

    by a gilas girl on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 02:55:57 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Re (0+ / 0-)

      I disagree. What you are asking for is very complicated and most people in most situations don't do it.

      If someone asks you for sex, and you are worried about the answers to questions like the ones you brought up, don't say yes until the questions have been answered to your satisfaction.

      But your partner has zero responsibility to understand what is going on in your mind otherwise. You say "yes", you live with the consequences. Or say no.

      Frankly I would never infantilize or insult my date by asking more than once after she said yes, or implying that she might not be thinking things through enough, etc. I assume that women I date are smart and self-assured enough to bring up issues if there are any, just like I would.

      "Yes" is too simple a term (and too easily coerced a term to mean that.
      Is "no" too simple a term too?

      And by "coerced", do you mean "convinced"? God forbid people try to convince other people to have sex by arguing persuasively. Can't have that.

      (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
      Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

      by Sparhawk on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 03:53:33 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Simply because most people in most situations (0+ / 0-)

        don't do something is no excuse for all of us not to take up the responsibility to begin doing so.

        The consequences of a miscommunicated/misconstrued "no" are not as dire as the consequences of miscommunicated/misconstrued "yes", so looking at outcomes, it maybe simpler.

        If you'd get off your belligerent high horse for a moment and give up the glorious ideal that arguing persuasively is the ultimate trophy on an internet discussion forum, you might pause to consider that the distinction between "coerced" and "convinced" that you want to triumph could have a very great deal to do with which side of the power equation you sit on.

        That's the point that people so often don't try or want to understand.  These things aren't symmetrical, and when you are the one sitting on the heavy end of the seesaw (i.e. the one whom the power imbalance benefits), it is up to you to adjust the weight.

        Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

        by a gilas girl on Fri Nov 08, 2013 at 06:54:42 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

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