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  •  The vast majority of people did not, of course. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    VClib, annecros, auapplemac

    The vast majority of people heard the President saying, "If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan.  Period."  Over and over and over and over.  

    That repeated statement sends a message that is inconsistent with the reality I described above.  It sends a message that we will add all these people, and it will not affect you at all if you like your insurance plan:  "If you like your plan, you can keep your plan, Period."  That was not the correct message, of course.  I knew it, which is why, even at the time, I was extremely suspicious of the President's repeated statements.  But I do not think it is reasonable to think that the vast majority of Americans hearing that statement over and over and over  are expected to delve into the weeds to see if the President is misleading them by making that statement over and over and over.    

    •  The President said it a few times (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      glynis, Tonedevil

      I think you've said it more in comments here in 3 days than he did in the 3 years since the law was passed.

      Please - try to sway your relatives out of their selfish little bubble and make them understand that the President did not fuck over their plan.  Their FOR PROFIT asshole insurance company did.  Help us get them angry at the appropriate people, please.

      Listening to the NRA on school safety is like listening to the tobacco companies on cigarette safety. (h/t nightsweat)

      by PsychoSavannah on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 08:13:39 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  This is just denying reality. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        annecros, Willa Rogers, auapplemac

        what do you consider "a few"?

        The President said it a few times (0+ / 0-)
        The President said it in many of his stump speeches in the Presidential campaign, and said it in one of the Presidential debates, if I remember correctly.  

        But, of course, you remember that the President spent months and months promoting the ACA, and he said it in virtually every speech he gave while he was out promoting the ACA.  It was a standard line -- and one he strongly emphasized -- in virtually every speech promoting the ACA. I would venture to say it's the line that people most remember when they think of the President promoting the ACA -- and he intentionally made it that way, because polls at the time showed something like 85% of people who had insurance were satisfied with that insurance, and he wanted to re-assure them that the ACA would not have a downside for them.  

        And this:  

        Their FOR PROFIT asshole insurance company did.  Help us get them angry at the appropriate people, please.
        Is based on the assumption that you expect a FOR PROFIT company not to be motivated by PROFIT.  That is delusional.  You have to EXPECT a for profit company to be motivated to make profits.  

        If the administration wanted a system where the main motivation was something other than profits, he should not have proposed a system where the main motivation was profits.  Or he should have said, "if we want to keep a private for-profit insurance system, when we add all these more expensive people, the for-profit insurance system is going to make up for it by charging others, perhaps you, even more."  That was the truth, and  he had to know it was the truth.

        You are acting like the President was that guy in Casablanca.  He set up a system that relies almost entirely on a for-profit insurance model.  He imposed rules that cut their profits in certain areas (pre-existing conditions, community ratings, etc.) He can't then pretend to be shocked -- shocked! --  that the for-profit companies want to make up those lost profits elsewhere.  

        I know that you did not want a for-profit model, and that's a legitimate position to take. But you cannot say that the Administration passed the ACA, a system that depends on the for-profit insurance model and that cuts those profits in some areas, and then bears no responsibility for the fact that the for-profit companies are going to make up those profits elsewhere.  That's just disingenuous.  Once you make the decision to go with the for-profit model, you are accountable for a system whereby the for-profit companies try to make a profit, because that's the system you designed.  

        •  First of all, an administration (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          doesn't pass any law.  The Congress does.

          You continue to conflate that shit.

          So, done.

          Listening to the NRA on school safety is like listening to the tobacco companies on cigarette safety. (h/t nightsweat)

          by PsychoSavannah on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 08:54:29 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Seriously???? (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            annecros, campionrules, auapplemac

            You don't think the ACA is THE PRESIDENT'S accomplishment? It was proposed and promoted by the President, and he was the one who went out on the stump to promote it and sell it to people for a year.  And the administration has adopted use of the term "Obamacare."  And the President considers it his signature accomplishment of his first term.  the White House is still promoting the ACA as an achievement of the President.  See here and here .  According to David Axelrod,

            Axelrod said that President Obama’s “view is that we ought to plow forward, make sure this can work, and we're going to look back at it and it's going to be our proudest accomplishment."
            See here:
            The administration and Democrats spent the better part of a year wrestling the bill through Congress amid unified Republican opposition and worries within their party that they were doing too much too fast. When he signed the legislation into law, Obama touted it as a historic moment — insisting he had done something that seven presidents had tried and failed to do — and telling ABC’s Charlie Gibson in December 2009 that “this will be the single most important piece of domestic legislation passed since Social Security.”
            Are you REALLY arguing that the President had nothing much to do with the ACA other than signing it into law?????????

            You are really grasping at straws.

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