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View Diary: Five years in prison for homeless mom that sent her child to school (423 comments)

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  •  Are you yourself High? (11+ / 0-)

    Sure they do.

    The very poor, born into a cycle of poverty and in this case, racism, after living in a world steeped in abuse may feel very few ties to society as you know it.

    You want them to adhere to the rules, and yet to do so is often meaningless for them in the greater scheme of things.

    In generational poverty, adhering to the rules, might keep you out of jail--maybe. But it doesn't put food on your table, you are not rewarded with better resources or a safe place to live, or a better place to get an education, or a chance at a better job.

    Not going to jail, just barely puts you at parity with society's hostility towards your existence as a poor person, and in her case an African American Woman.

    You want people to follow the rules--thats all very fine and good, but where is the pay off?

    People who HAVE are all about telling the rest of us, that nothing in this life is for free--damn straight it isn't.

    If you want people to behave, then the rewards for social compliance should be more significant than, "We might not bother you while you scrounge for food and live under a bridge--maybe."

    People seem to think these days that you pay to play--to go to the college, have a good job, and nice place ---safe place to live--sure you do. But if we fail to provide these things to the poorest people trying their best, then society pays the other way too, in terms of supporting jails, in food stamps, indigent medical care, generational poverty that breeds self perpetuating abuse and negligence.

    We give the profoundly poor zero incentives to play by society's rules.

    You want this woman to straighten up and fly right? Put her child in a safe good school with a chance at a real education.

    Put her in rehab, get her genuine therapy, and job placement for some where else than Burger King or Micky Ds.

    Gentlemen, congratulations. You're everything we've come to expect from years of government training (Zed, MIB).

    by GreenMother on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 08:04:36 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  You insult poor people (8+ / 0-)

      Most do not resort to selling crack, pimping, and robbery to make do.  

      Whether I am high or not isn't really pertinent.

      And jeee, I said I supported your idea of a suitable punishment.  But please, take another opportunity to get in the last sanctimonious word.

      •  Not really (10+ / 0-)

        She didn't say poor people are poor because they're immoral.  She's saying the circumstances of poverty will push you into acts that you otherwise would not have even thought of committing.  She's right, too.  Some of those acts aren't criminal, but some are, and it all depends on the individual situation.

        You keep saying "most poor people" don't do this and "most poor people" don't do that--unless you have stats to back it up, just stop.  What a poor person does with their life depends greatly on the choices available to them.  "Available," not just "nice to think about."

        Hell, I've made a choice that I would not have made with more resources available to me.  It's not an illegal thing for me to do, but it has destroyed me socially.  But it was that or not be able to give my daughter the most stable life possible.  When you are broke you have fewer choices, period.  I tell myself I'll be able to make friends again when she's grown and I only have to worry about myself.

        •  If you think "most poor people" are criminals (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          churchylafemme, Dr Swig Mcjigger

          that's what I would call profiling.  That was the point being argued, not whether they have tougher choices.  And yes, it's insulting to suggest that most commit crimes (which, of course,is the logical alternative to arguing against my statement that most do not).  

          Selling crack, lying, and pimping are choices.  There are always other options.  She chose the bad ones.  I don't call her immoral, because that is too complicated for me to even remotely give an opinion on.  But she made some bad choices, choices that most poor people, to their credit, would not make.  Those people are the ones who the diary should be written about.  In contrast, this woman's behavior is fairly shameful.  

          •  Consider for a moment that I am from (5+ / 0-)

            the generational poor. I lived and grew up there and have watched this over and over and over first hand. I see people with good hearts making bad choices, because they lose hope. They can see that the social contracts are broken, and that most of what passed for moral society is a goddamn scam.

            When you are hungry, cold, tired, and fed up, choices that are available but not ideal suddenly don't look so bad to other people.

            That's not an insult or a judgement, that's simply human nature.

            Creating a society with entire cohorts of underclasses, forced to survive while being constantly beaten with a stick painted to look like a carrot, yes do be sure to get all pissed off when they figure that out and return tit for tat.

            I see a poor woman who became a petty criminal serving time, while people who have driven this country into the shitter get off scott free.

            Who did the most harm to society? A petty criminal or the guy that ran Enron and looted retirement funds for how many Americans? Did she destroy the fisheries in the Gulf? Did she invest billions in predatory lending schemes that crashed the housing market?

            She--we can help and barring that her child, we can certainly help. Those other guys? They had every advantage and they still turned to crime. She was hungry, desperate and poor; What's their excuse?

            I feel sorry for her and for her child. I am willing to overlook her crimes in order to see to the well-being of her child, esp if that means that by keeping them together in a safe place with food and clothing and the opportunity to genuinely better themselves might mean, that the child can break this chain of being in and of a cycle of poverty.

            Gentlemen, congratulations. You're everything we've come to expect from years of government training (Zed, MIB).

            by GreenMother on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 11:17:15 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  It's kind of hard to argue this (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sparhawk
      You want them to adhere to the rules, and yet to do so is often meaningless for them in the greater scheme of things.
      When you are headed to jail for five years, it's pretty hard to argue that adhering to the rules is meaningless. However bad her life was before, its about to get a whole lot worse.
    •  So because of those very moving reasons (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      churchylafemme, Dr Swig Mcjigger

      we're supposed to be cool with drug dealers hanging out in front of elementary schools while carrying their wares?

      I'm all for legalizing drugs, but even so I don't think we should have people pushing them on kiddies walking out of elementary school.  

      The woman in question was a known drug dealer, who attempted to pimp other women to undercover cops?  Is that OK because she's poor?  Because she sent her kid to school?  For all we know, she just wanted her kid in school to get him out of her hair while she pimped and dealed.  

      "When I was an alien, cultures weren't opinions" ~ Kurt Cobain, Territorial Pissings

      by Subterranean on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 10:10:00 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Is it okay with you, the situations that lead to (5+ / 0-)

        her doing these things?

        When I see a woman trying to get her child into a better school--I see a glimmer of hope worth nurturing. But no, lets reinforce all the harsh lessons she learned by giving her an extra five years for trying to do right by her child.

        That makes perfect sense. And it would in her world. The beatings will continue until morale improves.

        When you worry about where your next meal is coming from or where you will lay your head or if you will be safe there--that is a whole other existence than most people dream of. Now through a child into that mix.

        I swear it's like there is a dearth of abilities to think not only 3 steps ahead, but also in terms of interconnections.

        All of these crimes and her condition is interconnected. There are better ways though, to get a person to take responsibility. One first step is  creating the safe space for them where they can become self aware, with the resources to eventually become self reliant within the rules of society.

        That cannot happen as long as punish people for being poor.

        Gentlemen, congratulations. You're everything we've come to expect from years of government training (Zed, MIB).

        by GreenMother on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 11:23:21 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  That's just demeaning to poor people (0+ / 0-)

          Most poor people do not pimp whores and sell drugs in front of elementary schools.  It's insulting that would think poor people all behave like that.

          Given this woman's history, she could have been dumping her kid at school not for an eductation, but to get him out of her hair so she could deal drugs and pimp victimized women.  

          "When I was an alien, cultures weren't opinions" ~ Kurt Cobain, Territorial Pissings

          by Subterranean on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 08:14:37 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I find your faux morality offensive. (0+ / 0-)

            There seems to be a disconnect between what you're claiming here and what GreenMother is saying.

            Our society created these poor people and you will not accept responsibility for it or even acknowledge that we did this to ourselves.

            As a poor person, I've contemplated many things, including what I would do if I eventually became homeless.

            It ain't pretty.

            -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

            by gerrilea on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 03:30:59 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  It's not faux morality (0+ / 0-)

              I'm in favor of drug legalization, but not selling drugs at an elementary school.  And I find pimping out victimized women flat-out offensive.  Doesn't matter if the perp is rich or poor.

              "When I was an alien, cultures weren't opinions" ~ Kurt Cobain, Territorial Pissings

              by Subterranean on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 07:45:40 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  And what proof has been provided here that she (0+ / 0-)

                was selling drugs to kids?

                NONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                Again with the "blame someone else", syndrome.

                We created this mess, this society did.  It's about time we took the responsibility for it.

                Obviously the authoritarian controls haven't worked, have they?  The "zero tolerance" mentality is a plague upon this nation!

                -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                by gerrilea on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 07:58:02 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  She has a history of dealing drugs (0+ / 0-)

                  and pimping.  They arrested her in front of a school loaded up with rocks.

                  While I agree that it is a societal problem, I don't quite get how that's relevant here.  Are we supposed to let poor people get away with crime just because poverty is a societal problem?  What if she had been packing heat at the school, would that have been ok?  What if she pulled a few girls from the school into her prostitution ring, would that be fine since she's a victim of society?

                  I don't understand this differential application of the law based on income levels.  

                  "When I was an alien, cultures weren't opinions" ~ Kurt Cobain, Territorial Pissings

                  by Subterranean on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 10:00:25 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

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