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View Diary: Five years in prison for homeless mom that sent her child to school (423 comments)

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  •  Where is her husband? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sparhawk, hmi, lyvwyr101

    Does she even have one?  Was she married when she got pregnant?

    One of the biggest crimes forced on women is this false belief that being a single mother is a legitimate path through life.  It takes two parents to support a child, and women need to think about that before getting into these situations.

    Note, if divorced the husband owes alimony that avoids needing to become a drug dealer / prostitute.

    If the husband is dead, life insuance provides enough to avoid that life as well.

    And I do put equal blame on the father, wherever he is.  If my wife ever ends up dealing drugs to support my child, that failure is on me 100%.  But I made sure I was financially stable before getting my wife pregnant.  That will never be my wife's fate.

    Men and women together need to stop having children they aren't prepared to support.  Stop pretending this isn't a real pattern repeated over and over again.

    •  Speaking of which (4+ / 0-)

      I was flabbergasted to read this story in my paper this weekend, about evangelical outreach and programs for single mothers.

      Evangelicals are assuring single moms that God has a plan for them, and it still includes marriage — just not in the way they expected.
      “I have a husband. His name is Jesus Christ. I have decided that he will be my daughter’s father, and she has grown up being told that God is her father. He is real in our house,” she told me. “He has provided for me and my child better than 10 husbands could have.”
      Pam Kanaly, one of the founders of Arise Ministries in Edmond, Okla., said many pastors worried that outreach to struggling single moms would drain their coffers: “What they fail to understand is that it doesn’t take much to help a single mom, and when a single mother is whole and healed, she is the strongest member in the church. She is the best worker, a leader, an icon in the church.” The new evangelical single mom is no Hester Prynne, but a Christian heroine who surpasses married women in her suffering and service.
      http://www.dallasnews.com/...

      “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

      by Catte Nappe on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 09:34:17 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  This is an improvement in their rhetoric. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Catte Nappe

        Progress comes very slowly in the church. They are starting to realize that single mothers can raise their kids as good as married mothers. It may be harder, but just as good for the child.

        I know the quote sounds very, very weird, but that is just the gymnastics that the church has to perform to justify their leap into the last century from the nineteenth century.

    •  For the very poor females to make enough to (7+ / 0-)

      survive to support them and a child or two, they would need to marry at least 3 husbands at their economic level.

      Why does she need a husband? Why was she left to fend for herself without any kind of significant social safety net?

      What kind of school did she go to? What kind of adult supervision did she get?

      Was she a victim of Ignorance Only training regarding human reproduction?

      Were the family planning services in her area defunded or otherwise blocked by would be-domestic terrorists?

      Maybe when we make it so that getting assistance isn't this insane, humiliating bureaucratic nightmare that stigmatizes people and pretends they are too rich if they have a crappy car or something equally silly, maybe when we start paying all workers a living wage, some of the bad choices this woman made in her past will seem less attractive to women and girls in similar situations in the future.

      Gentlemen, congratulations. You're everything we've come to expect from years of government training (Zed, MIB).

      by GreenMother on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 11:32:57 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Are you serious? (8+ / 0-)
      One of the biggest crimes forced on women is this false belief that being a single mother is a legitimate path through life.
      I'm stunned to read that here. For all the kids raised quite capably by a single mom: fuck you very much.

      "Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever." -- Gandhi

      by akasha on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 12:43:38 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Then she didn't need to deal drugs, did she? (0+ / 0-)

        Can't have it both ways.  I'm not going to listen to one person say she had no choice but to deal drugs, because she was a poor single mother, and then listen to another say that single mothers get along just fine.

        So I'll take you at your word, that this woman should have been capable to raise the child alone.  And since she wasn't, the failure is hers, alone.

        Or do you agree with the claims here that she had no choice but to deal crack and pimp out other women, because she was just a poor single mother?

        •  Do we know how she came to this? (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          GreenMother, Treetrunk, gerrilea

          After all, if this is all she knows about how to survive, then she's going to make these choices.

          I have known people who only know how to live doing things like this.



          Women create the entire labor force.
          ---------------------------------------------
          Sympathy is the strongest instinct in human nature. - Charles Darwin

          by splashy on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 07:04:44 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Me Too. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Norm in Chicago, Treetrunk, gerrilea

            It's easy to read a story like this and feel superior. Because no one in their right mind ever believes they can be in a situation where this woman's choices might make sense or be a means to survive.

            Until they have been there, they won't know. And you know some people have been there and got lucky. Many more wouldn't have any luck if not for the bad kind.

            Whenever possible (as I have aged) I choose compassion over retribution.

            Right now I see America's criminal system to be one that pays lip service to justice, but really is about retribution. That is disturbing to me, because what I would like to see is less recidivism, and less generational poverty, neglect and abuse. My perception is that these things go hand in hand.

            That requires that the people to that make the first step, be the ones in power. And that requires those individuals in authority to put aside their emotional responses, and feelings of superiority, and opt instead for acts that are more humble, and less judging.

            Discipline should never be meted out in anger. Those are words to live by. Otherwise it isn't discipline, it's simply punishment. Discipline teaches, punishment inflicts.

            I am not okay with what the crimes this woman committed. But I am also not okay with the world that creates parts of society where her criminal behavior is a form of survival. I am also not okay with perpetuating the isolation, abuse and neglect of her child, because that will most likely lead to a similar outcome when that child becomes an adult.

            That is why I am willing to overlook so much, just to keep it from happening in the next generation, and the next and so on and so-forth.

            I would rather her get better via the help and education she needs, and the child live with their family, than to simply humiliate and isolate her so that I can feel like "justice" is served.

            There is no pay off there, especially not in the long run.

            Gentlemen, congratulations. You're everything we've come to expect from years of government training (Zed, MIB).

            by GreenMother on Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 08:28:59 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Then she wasn't capable to raise a child (0+ / 0-)

            If all she knew was drugs and prostitution, then I'm forced to go back to the claim that she needed a husband with a job to help her raise that child. She couldn't do it on her own, not in the way a child needs.

            Sorry, you painted yourself into a corner with this one.

            •  And sadly, you've revealed the sexism you (0+ / 0-)

              hold dear to your heart.

              then I'm forced to go back to the claim that she needed a husband with a job

              -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

              by gerrilea on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 03:39:16 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Fine, a lesbian lover (0+ / 0-)

                The second parent doesn't need to be a man.  If you're more comfortable with her being a lesbian and the child having two mommies, fine.

                The operative word however is TWO.

              •  But it's also biology you know (0+ / 0-)

                Do you believe the biological father of that child has any responsibilities at all for it's care and upbringing?  Any financial responsibility?
                Or are men just the sperm donor to be thrown away after copulation?

                Just saying, if you don't think the father needs to pay for his own kid, that mom doesn't need him at all, then don't ask for help from the taxpayer either.  Cause half of us are men.

                •  You haven't provided me evidence that her (0+ / 0-)

                  pregnancy wasn't a result of being homeless and more likely than not being a hooker.

                  How does the father get determined in these situations to actually be held accountable?

                  In a stable society whereby living wage jobs are available for all, "needing a man" for support would be moot.

                  Where did I ever say a father shouldn't bare responsibility?

                  But I guess it's really a good thing that we're cutting aid to those lazy, irresponsible women for getting pregnant, right???

                  -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                  by gerrilea on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 06:23:12 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I'm pro choice. Aren't you? (0+ / 0-)

                    What's the point of arguing for abortion rights if we get all squeemish about it when the time comes?  

                    If she didn't want to be pregnant and didn't have the financial resources to raise the child, then she should have had an abortion.

                    Or given the child up for adoption at birth.

                    You can't have it both ways.  Either she's a strong independent woman in control of her destiny, or she's not.  Pick one.

                    •  Disgusting! Should we now force women into (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      splashy

                      your eugenics mentality???

                      If she didn't want to be pregnant and didn't have the financial resources to raise the child, then she should have had an abortion.
                      Shit, if you're going to go that far, then anyone poor must be forcibly sterilized, right!

                      GGGGGRRRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                      Your false choices do not reflect the reality most of us exist in.

                      First it was "she needed a man!"

                      Now it's she must do what you say with her body!!!!!!!!

                      HOW about this:  You learn to accept that most people do not live their lives by your false choices and false elitist morality!

                      THEN, we start again!

                      Every woman has the right to chose what happens with her own body.

                      Every woman has the right to give birth, even if she cant afford said child IN THIS SOCIETY!!!!!!!!!!

                      Either we're civilized or we're not, it's that simple.

                      Clearly we are not.

                      -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                      by gerrilea on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 08:12:11 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Poor isn't permanent, but she chose that path (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Dr Swig Mcjigger

                        First, you equate a single abortion with forced sterilization?  You sound more like a right-wing nut job than a feminist.  I doubt you actually believe that.

                        Second, you equate an abortion with eugenics.  So abortion is genocide and must be banned?  I doubt you believe that either.

                        Don't argue with false positions.

                        I do not force my will on anyone, but I do demand personal responsibility.  This woman had a choice in front of her.  To get an abortion and fight her way out of poverty, or have a child she couldn't afford, and be mired in unescapable poverty for herself and her child.  Thus ensuring the cycle would repeat.

                        You're correct, every woman has the right to be poor if she so chooses.  She made her choice, and now she's in jail because of those choices.  Own up to that, at least.

                        Part of being in a civilized society is recognizing the nature of reality.

                        •  No, I equate your male chauvinism/sexism (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          splashy

                          that women must do what you believe is right for them to your stated position that they must/should have gotten an abortion.  The rest of my corollary is taken to it's elitist authoritarian conclusions.  If you truly believe you know what a woman needs to do, then you surely know that if they are poor, they must not have children.  That was the Progressive Movements foundation a bit over 100 yrs ago.

                          You can't demand anything of any other human, especially respect when you hold the position that your views and morality are superior to theirs.  When you assume to know what is best for them.

                          What we don't know here is how was she raised?  In an inner city generationally destroyed by our racist drug war?

                          The "choices" you claim she could make prove beyond a shadow of a doubt you will never allow others to live freely, even when you disagree with their choices.

                          We are coerced and conditioned into accepting a "reality" that we are nothing more than cogs in the wheels of industry.  A reality that strips your creativity and humanity from you.  You're "repeating cycle of poverty" is one of the reasons I'm a member here, to end it and move us progressively forward beyond the constraints of chasing the almighty dollar.  

                          Why couldn't this society just give her a home and/or a place to live, for free?  Free of fees, taxes and surcharges?  Why couldn't we teach her how to feed herself and her children with her own hands?  Then allowing her to do so?

                          Putting her in jail only destroys the spirit and continues the same vicious cycle of despair and destruction caused by perpetual poverty.

                          A civilized society wouldn't allow corporations to pit humans against each other fighting over the scraps that fell off their plates.

                          A civilized society wouldn't create a system that destroys them and then blames them for the destruction it created.

                          I will never blame the drug dealer, drug user or the drug buyer for existing in this "civilized" society.  They all are a product of what we created.

                          I'll take responsibility for that and fight to move us beyond it.  Without authoritarian elitist controls meant to condition humanity like Pavlov's Dogs.  For I have faith in my fellow human that they can evolve past these manipulations that keep us hating one another.  Keeping us forever divided.

                          -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                          by gerrilea on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 09:36:53 AM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Adoption was an option (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Dr Swig Mcjigger

                            There are lots of gay couples out there looking to adopt.  Why did she deny her child a loving home?

                            I don't support the war on drugs and no I don't support throwing dealers in jail.  But I'm also not going to pretend that dealing crack in front of a school is the proper way to support a child.  

                            As for free housing, I've seen what Section 8 housing does.  I've seen townhouse developments destroyed by Section 8 renters getting free rent. They did no maintainence, had no respect for the property or their neighbors, and in the end destroyed it.  It was free, why should they care that the paint was peeling and the roof was leaking.  They'd just get another free unit elsewhere.  Not their problem.

                            Value is earned and respected through work, and paying one's own way.  What is given for free has no value.
                            The issue is the lack of jobs, not the lack of free housing.

                            I'll ask you a serious question.  Why have I been going to work everyday for 15 years to pay for my home if I could just do nothing and get a home for free?  Am I a sucker for working?

                            But I will say it again, because you didn't hear it.  I didn't force anything on this woman.  She was free, and she freely made her own choices.  She freely made the wrong choices, but you don't want to hear that.  You want making the wrong choices to be rewarded with free housing, paid for by those who made the right choices.

                          •  You found me out, I'm a bleeding heart liberal. (0+ / 0-)

                            What I was thinking and what you were thinking are really not on the same page.  I meant why not give them a home that was theirs, forever.  NOT a housing project temporary apartment that is meant to demean and degrade them.  HUGE difference.  Once the title is transferred to the person, it's theirs do to with as they please...a one time only deal.  If they sell it for a quick fix, too bad.  If they throw a party and someone burns it down from a lit cigarette, too bad.  If it needs pipes, paint, roof, it's their responsibility for upkeep.  

                            It's their choice.

                            It's not like we don't have the land available or the properties, we do.  All of humanity could live in the area we call Texas on property that is 30 feet by 90 feet one story high...which is almost exactly the same area I live on now (actually mines a lot less now that I think about it).

                            This plan instantaneously makes them part of the American society.  Free individuals with a stake in the outcome of everything.  From local elections, to tax policy to school curriculum to snow plowing!

                            This isn't to belittle mine or yours years of self sacrifice and hard works, it enhances and protects us all.  They become functioning productive members of the human race.  They know we value them and their future efforts.

                            Faith starts by giving it to others.  

                            I know it'd be a struggle at first but we have to try.  We have to try something to break this cycle of despair.

                            So far we've never given anyone the tools necessary for success in these United States, it's about time we did.  As the richest most powerful nation in human history, we have that minimal duty to raise our collective standards of living for all of us.

                            On a side bar, in regards to your question about being a sucker.  I think we all are for allowing our values and ideals to be conditioned into us.  A very long time ago I was homeless, for over four months.  Thanks to the generosity of my older sister, I'd probably be dead somewhere.  I picked myself up, cleaned myself off and went back to college.  Worked hard and diligently moving up "the corporate ladder" to become a Store Manager.  Where I was lied to, cheated out of and stolen from, in the end left unemployed and on the brink of homelessness once again after the crash of 2008.

                            I learned one valuable lesson through all this, it doesn't pay to do the right thing, to be a moral, forthright hard-working individual in these United States.   That's a dream only for White men, not the rest of us.

                            I think it's time for real change now.

                            -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                            by gerrilea on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 11:40:11 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Payoff my mortgage and I'm in (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            gerrilea

                            Free houses for all! Great political plank, you should run for office.

                          •  Hey, don't thank me for the idea, that must go (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Norm in Chicago

                            to Jon Stewart.

                            He's the one that pointed out it would have been cheaper just to pay off everyone's mortgages.  And he's right, an instantaneous stimulus for everyone.

                            -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                            by gerrilea on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 12:38:20 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                  •  And what "living wage job" pays for child care? (0+ / 0-)

                    I make 6 figures, and I have to scrimp and save so that my wife could quit her job and stay home with the baby.  We're not flush with cash, I drive a 15 year old car that's falling apart.

                    So I'll give this woman a "living wage job" of $20/hr.

                    That's going to pay for rent, utilities, food, transportation, healthcare, AND daycare for the kid while she's at work? Daycare at $1000-2000 per month?

                    You're dreaming, in complete fantasy land.

    •  Ummm...did it ever occur to you that she (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mimi

      might have gotten pregnant as a consequence of her homelessness?  Maybe she was a hooker.

      I've seen and read so many things here of late, I keep wondering if I'm on the right site anymore.

      Men and women together need to stop having children they aren't prepared to support.

      -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

      by gerrilea on Tue Nov 05, 2013 at 03:34:28 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  wow, boy oh boy, (0+ / 0-)
      One of the biggest crimes forced on women is this false belief that being a single mother is a legitimate path through life.
      A crime forced on women ... really?

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