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View Diary: The botched rollout continues (515 comments)

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  •  Without Plouffe and Axelrod (72+ / 0-)

    ... can this president do anything right?  I listened to John Heilemann last night on Larry O'Donnell's show recount a story in his latest book about how Obama had a meltdown during debate prep for his second debate in 2012.  His brain wasn't wired the way it takes to communicate in debates, he said, according to the new "Game Change" book.  His staff had to perform an intervention (Heilemann's word, reporting his sources) to get him to snap out of it and get serious.

    The story explained a lot.  Obama's great at reading a speech, but get him out of that mode in trying to explain things to ordinary folks and he often seems out of his depth.  He doesn't have Bill Clinton's natural communication ability.  And he doesn't seem to know how to put a staff together in the White House to make up for that shortcoming.  The Obamacare rollout and the messaging around it are perhaps the clearest illustration of this.

    You have to wonder how his brain wiring has affected his negotiating style with Republicans, among other things.  He needs a lot of help on this stuff, and he often doesn't seem to know how to find it.

    We have always been at war with al Qaeda.

    by Dallasdoc on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 06:18:20 AM PST

    •  Come on. (80+ / 0-)

      The guy is a preternaturally gifted leader and politician. He doesn't always win on every issue, and he has political enemies 100% devoted to destroying his administration on a daily basis. He's doing well as president, despite the inevitable mistakes and missed opportunities. And he's no puppet of his advisers.

      •  Preternaturally gifted leader and politician? (40+ / 0-)

        Could you give some examples of that?
        I think that was an expectation of Obama  that was definitely not lived up to. I think he's soso as a politician and about the same as a leader.  Obamacare is a good example of that---altho it has his name on it, he had no definite plan for it when he came in (or ever) and its the product of sausage making politics, not a well thought out plan from the start (I'm also a single payer fan)
        Clinton was a get out there and press-the-flesh and kiss babies type of guy. He loved it and was good at it.  Obama is an ivory towered kind of guy. He really is a speechifier, not a debater.

        Happy just to be alive

        by exlrrp on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 06:39:51 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  It seemed 5 years ago that he (11+ / 0-)

          had multitudes of followers, but that isn't the same thing as being an actual leader.

          •  Lets see now (25+ / 0-)

            I think a preternaturally gifted leader and politiciain would have a long record of causes he's assumed and fought with all his heart to put across until theyre real. He puts his ideas across through vigorous debate, whenever possible and then transforms them into reality. He keeps at it.
            Can anyone give and example where Obama did this? (other than his elections)
            (Hint: I won't be taking High SPeed trains to the market this year either)

            Happy just to be alive

            by exlrrp on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 06:48:00 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  well (8+ / 0-)

              he closed Guantanamo i think :(

            •  He wants everyone to play nice and compromise (40+ / 0-)

              as per his Dallas speech yesterday:

              And historically, those things have been struggles, but at least in most of my lifetime, you had both Democrats and Republicans who would affirm those values even if they had differences in tactics or different particular political programs.  That’s not what we have right now.  And the result is not just gridlock, but it's actually a little more destructive than that.

              I mean, the shutdown cost this country money.  It was bad for business.  It was bad for families.  And yet, it still happened.  Default would have been worse -- could have triggered a financial crisis worse than the one we had in 2008.  And yet, that was a real possibility.

              The only way that we can realign our politics so that it matches up with the decency and goodness of the American people is if elections matter, and we're able to both deliver a message and organize ourselves so that folks who aren't acting responsibly pay a consequence, and that we're lifting up and rewarding candidates who are serious about the challenges this country faces and are willing to work together in a spirit that is constructive in order to deliver for the American people.

              So that’s what 2012 was about, and that’s what 2014 was about, and I suspect that’s what 2016 is going to be about.  And I have to say that I'm a proud Democrat and am committed to the values that the Democratic Party represents, but I'm also interested in getting the Republican Party back in a functioning state.  Because this country has two parties, and we need both of them operating in a way that allows us to move forward.

              He called the likely GOP frontrunner for 2016 to congratulate him on his re-election.  This president keeps at it.  The things he keeps at (e.g. TPP and the "Grand Bargain") aren't necessarily things that many of us here actually want.

              Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream of things that never were and ask why not?

              by RFK Lives on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:16:27 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  He called out Cruz in that speech, (12+ / 0-)

                oh selective editor, and he called MacAuliffe also, and Biden called the wrong Marty Walsh.  He'd have called whomever won.   Christie will probably win the New Hampshire primary, but that's it.

                Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

                by Loge on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:26:28 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  I don't see Cruz mentioned by name in speech (12+ / 0-)

                  Please show me where he was mentioned.  The only mention of GOP senators I saw by name came here:

                  So on issues like immigration reform, where we know we've got a bipartisan consensus and the majority of the people support it and we've already passed it through the Senate, Michael Bennet worked with folks like Marco Rubio and John McCain and Jeff Flake -- Republicans who recognize we've got a broken system and we need to fix it.  
                  A Dem president calling a Dem gov to congratulate him isn't exactly news.  A president calling a re-elected gov from the other party who's clearly gearing up for a presidential run is unusual.  As to whether Christie will retain his likely front-runner status after Goopers actually start voting is a total unknown at present, and it's utterly beside the point.

                  Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream of things that never were and ask why not?

                  by RFK Lives on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:38:29 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  "some politicans down here in texas" (4+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    sviscusi, buffie, jqb, Phoenix Woman

                    that confused you?  I said he called him out, not that he called him out by name.  (I'm sure Rubio in particular would prefer Obama had left his name out of it.)

                    even if the phone cal were unusual, i have no idea what significance it has.  Obama and Christie are apparently personally friendly - CC passes the "have a beer with" test and then some.  Obama's gonna be supporting Hillary.  Perhaps he's using the Christie election as a wedge between the establishment and insurgent groups in the Republican party.  Perhaps it's just courtesy.  I don't know that boldfacing the word 'is' makes it more true, in any event, nor do I see what significance this has in the broader context of the diary's argument.  And the word "retain" does not mean what you think it means, though i agree whatever it is is beside the point.  

                    Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

                    by Loge on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:50:22 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Is a map necessary here? (8+ / 0-)
                      i have no idea what significance it has.
                      The comment you're responding to just laid out a good argument:
                      A Dem president calling a Dem gov to congratulate him isn't exactly news.   A president calling a re-elected gov from the other party who's clearly gearing up for a presidential run is unusual.
                      Obama is allegedly a Democrat. Chris Christie calls himself a Republican. He might even be the Democrats' opponent in 2016.  To say that is unusual is the significance.

                      Has it become impossible to dial back the deliberately-obtuse around here, or is that all which remains of "defenses" of exactly this kind of dissonant fuckery? Because unless they're best pals, that call was stupid.

                      This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

                      by lunachickie on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:59:56 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  This is a diary about getting people signed up (4+ / 0-)

                        for Obamacare.  Comments like "allegedly a Democrat" make it sound like Obama's trying to sabotage his own law's implementation.  Maybe it was intentional.  I'd have liked a stronger run at Christie, of course, but that's a state party issue.  

                        I presume the comment about Christie being a front runner was meant to amplify the supposed venality here.

                        We can't call someone form the other party on the phone after an election . . . come on.  Plus, as i said, it could well serve to amplify the Republican's own civil war.  Whether it's a bad idea is something for debate; whether it's rare is not advanced by repeating it with boldface text.  There were something like 4 elections of significance that day, so I see no reason not to call the guy, especially if they have a decent working relationship.  

                        The point about not knowing the significance was not so much not understanding RFKlives's argument, as not engaging in the activity of drawing wild inferences about the "real" Obama based on his own subjective interpretation of selectively chosen data points.  Ultimately, neither of us know why Obama called Christie, and ultimately, it tells us very very little about ACA enrollment, 2016, or anything else.

                        I might prefer Christie as the nominee to some of the teabaggers, as I think he, like Romney, is the most beatable candidate yet capable of performing some of the basic functions of governing.  He's wrong on his opposition to infrastructure spending and anti-unionism, but he's not nihilistic, so that counts as progress I suppose.

                        Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

                        by Loge on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 08:11:31 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Yes, it is (4+ / 0-)

                          it's also a diary about the "botched rollout". And frankly, that example (the phone call) is relevant because it kind of highlights the mentality driving the ship right now.

                          Unless they're actual friends, it was stupid--and yeah, it's nihilistic, in some ways--in terms of optics. And we both know that optics count in politics.

                          Comments like "allegedly a Democrat" make it sound like Obama's trying to sabotage his own law's implementation
                          .  

                          That's not even where I was headed (simply highlighting a bit of irony for each guy). But you know, that's an interesting point to wonder about if we've already had a silent coup. Which, for the record, I still think happened on some level either with the SCOTUS 2000 decision or when the PATRIOT Act was codified into law.

                          My bottom line? Nobody is this dense. Not just about that phone call, either.

                          This is, now and forever, Democratic Party law. Somebody in that white house needs to get on the fucking ball.
                          Like it or not--and I haven't much cared for bbb's take since the rollout, up to today--that's a correct statement. I said it somewhere else, he's finally boiled down to the essence on this thing. Time's a'wastin'.

                          This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

                          by lunachickie on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 08:31:53 AM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  if you see something nefarious in one phone call, (4+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Lying eyes, poco, jqb, PsychoSavannah

                            that's a comment on you, not on Obama.  Sensible people would see nothing amiss whatsoever about it, but the optics are such that it's probably bad for Christie in the primary.  Admittedly, it was 5 minutes when Obama wasn't working on ACA rollout, but let's also not forget part of the way the law works is that many of the exchanges are run by state governments, so it's one area where bipartisan cooperation is probably essential.  But i think the point holds that unless you know what was going through Obama's mind when he called Christie, there's nothing really to make of it.  Also, the all-or-nothing frame is a bit incorrect.  Can the White House be doing more?  Surely, but I know some people from the '08 and '12 campaigns who are working full time on getting people signed up -- i'm sure they would like more resources and support, but saying someone (who exactly) should get on the ball (and do what) is kind of empty.

                            Huge day in Virginia, though, if MacAuliffe is able to get Medicaid expansion through the House of Delegates.

                            Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

                            by Loge on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 09:33:40 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  . (6+ / 0-)
                            ne·far·i·ous (typically of an action or activity) wicked or criminal.
                            Right. Because I called that phone call wicked or criminal.

                            No. I called it STUPID.

                            Is it too much to ask that if you're going to debate people around here, that you at least learn to read and comprehend what you're responding to before you hit the "post" button?

                            Can the White House be doing more?  Surely
                            Then WHY AREN'T THEY?  You "know people". Ask them and then get back to us with a real reason.

                            This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

                            by lunachickie on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 09:47:27 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  ok, so i should have used a different word, (4+ / 0-)

                            God almighty get off your high horse.

                            i understand that you think it's stupid -- i also think that you are engaging in nothing more than confirmation bias.  if it's "indicative" of something, it's indicative of what you've already predetermined "the political climate" to be.  Whether or not it's stupid, is really too soon to tell.  It could be stupid, it could be cynical, it most likely is nothing because only people giving a rat's ass are you and a few cats at redstate who decide they hate Christie for no good reason.

                            i don't know the inner circle, and i never claimed otherwise.  I'd doubt, however, if they're unaware of the issues, but I don't know how to help them do this particular job better.  Neither strategy nor voter contact was my main job.  The people I'm referring to, however, are those who are out there doing things.  Do you know people who could use help navigating the sign-up process?  Talk to them and get back to us.  

                            Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

                            by Loge on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 10:02:31 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Words matter. (0+ / 0-)

                            There's a freaking ocean of difference between wicked and stupid.

                            So many people here considered it to be "consorting with the enemy" when some Dems saw fit to support Justin Amash's bill to rein in the NSA by defunding it.

                            Same thing here, this call to Christie, by that definition. That's really not a difficult thing to understand.

                            Looked to me like you "knew some insiders" with this remark:

                            Can the White House be doing more?  Surely, but I know some people from the '08 and '12 campaigns who are working full time on getting people signed up --
                            but on reflection, that was a bad assumption--I know I worked to help get Mr. Obama elected, but that was way back in 2007, before I learned I was "a retard" and what-not. So my apologies there.

                            Now, having said that...

                            i'm sure they would like more resources and support

                            It's this President's legacy. GET THEM SOME MORE HELP.  

                            This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

                            by lunachickie on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 04:31:06 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You do realize ... (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Phoenix Woman, Loge

                            ... you're fuming about phone calls and name calling, or more specifically, what you're choosing to read into phone calls and name calling.

                            Ah, memories of high school.  How they do come flooding back at times ...

                            But far be it for me to interrupt yet another thrilling installment of "The President Sucks" ...

                            Carry on.

                          •  Ug. I apologize for this comment ... (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Phoenix Woman

                            I'm not my best self today.

                          •  yeah, i understand your argument dude. (0+ / 0-)

                            but you know what it sounds the most like?  Something from Politico, all inside personality stuff about who sits next to whom in the cafeteria.  Game Change III?

                            I was referring to field organizers in that comment - if you really know how campaigns work, that's the vast majority of people from a campaign, and the job I was describing is a field organizing job.  (They were the people who handed you the clipboard and told you which doors to knock and then talked about how unpleasant you seem to be after you were gone.)   But anyway, i hear about projects like setting up store-front enrollment centers in poor cities and groups that are slowly but surely actively hiring. So the idea that nobody is doing anything just doesn't ring true to me, since I'm not getting all, or any of, my information from Politico.

                            And speaking of words mattering, if you can find when I called anyone an "R" on this site, please enlighten me.   And of course, the general thrust of the argument, 'nefarious' aside which is I admitted the wrong word before you piled on, is that is't not really "stupid" so much as stupid to even have an opinion about, or at least capable of more than one interpretation.  When I wasn't sure of something you were saying, i gave you the chance to clarify before freaking out, also.

                            Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

                            by Loge on Fri Nov 08, 2013 at 11:37:34 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Well, again (0+ / 0-)

                            I didn't call you that. If you have been keeping up with Professional Staffers of This Administration (or at least "one in particular"), you might have known what the reference was.

                            And this? No idea what you're on about here:

                            Something from Politico, all inside personality stuff
                            Get the staff some freakin' help? harkens to Politico? Ummmm, oooooooooookkkkkkkay....

                            This all started with "what the Republicans did to language".

                            by lunachickie on Sat Nov 09, 2013 at 12:32:40 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  no, worrying about the effects of a (0+ / 0-)

                            courtesy phone call harkens to politico.   That's the part you suggested I got wrong.

                            Yeah, I guess Rahm did say the R-word in anger once or a hundred times.  I had put it more or less out of my mind.  When you put it right after a block-quote of me, not Rahm, it's hard to see the immediate connection to the 2010 legislative session, and I believe the instance you are referring to was NOT an attack on all liberals, progressive or slacktivists who evidently can't be bothered to volunteer in 2008 or 2012, but rather those who were proposing the specific tactic of running negative ads against blue dogs attacking for not supporting the ACA.  Whether that would have been dumb, we'll never know, but that was an intramural debate among people all on the side of getting Obamacare passed.  His rhetoric was clearly inappropriate, but I don't think it makes him the devil, and otherwise have little interest in revisiting the degree to which he is or isn't.

                            And yes, a lot of people need help in this world, you especially.  Breathe . . .  

                            Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

                            by Loge on Sat Nov 09, 2013 at 01:48:43 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I saw someone refer to this as hallucinatory (0+ / 0-)

                            ideology.

                          •  NOT till the WEB site is Fixed! Jeeze (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Loge

                            quit being the drama queen. Sending a hoard to a non working site won't do anything but raise the anxiety level of many.

                            Let me make it simple. Calling Christie infuriated the Tea bags. It ties him to the hated Obama and Democrats. Tea baggers vote. Teabaggers are the base. They run the state conventions.

                            I'm asking you to believe. Not in my ability to bring about real change in Washington ... *I'm asking you to believe in yours.* Barack Obama

                            by samddobermann on Fri Nov 08, 2013 at 03:32:42 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                      •  Christie's now trying for 2016 Prez slot (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        highacidity

                        Which means he has to run hard, hard right if he wants to have a prayer of surviving the GOP primaries.

                        Obama just gave Christie's primary opponents a big fat gift which will feature in their advertising all throughout the winter of 2015 and the spring of 2016.

                        Visit http://theuptake.org/ for Minnesota news as it happens.

                        by Phoenix Woman on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 06:05:28 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  do you think Obama's call endeared (0+ / 0-)

                        Christie to his teabag base?

                        Why do you think Christie hasn't been mentioning it.

                        Your comment  was what you think of the call.

                        I'm asking you to believe. Not in my ability to bring about real change in Washington ... *I'm asking you to believe in yours.* Barack Obama

                        by samddobermann on Fri Nov 08, 2013 at 03:19:51 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                    •  Perhaps it's genius on the president's part (3+ / 0-)

                      Perhaps he knows that a congrats from him is one more nail in Christie's presidential coffin where the extreme right is concerned.

                      The president is smart. The GOP is not. They HATE that.

                  •  Not to mention a slap in the face to Barbara (20+ / 0-)

                    Buono who never got Obama's or the national party's support.

                    A Dem president calling a Dem gov to congratulate him isn't exactly news.  A president calling a re-elected gov from the other party who's clearly gearing up for a presidential run is unusual.  As to whether Christie will retain his likely front-runner status after Goopers actually start voting is a total unknown at present, and it's utterly beside the point.
                  •  He thinks the neo-conservative movement has a (9+ / 0-)

                    legitimate place in politics and government. It's Obama's greatest flaw.

                    He has a kind of cruel pick-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps side that melds with the neo-cons.



                    "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."

                    - Louis Brandies

                    by Pescadero Bill on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 08:30:18 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Regarding your Brandeis quote... (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      RFK Lives, magnetics

                      Obama and his boo Christie would opt for the latter

                      I am an economic Keynesian, a social libertarian, a foreign policy internationalist, and militantly anti-authoritarian in every way shape and form.

                      by zemongoose on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 10:12:00 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  Don't Be Cruel... (3+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      jqb, doinaheckuvanutjob, highacidity

                      ...Elvis!

                      He has a kind of [cruel?] pick-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps side [that melds with the neo-cons.]
                      Doesn't "pick-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps" reflect his own journey in life? Perhaps you need to look more closely at what having an absentee father upbringing does to a young man. I had to deal with that, and, believe me, it was hellish at times trying to not project the thick skin and sense of purposelessness that can occur as a result.

                      And then, there's the effect on your kids...Takes a while to heal from this, and I still have to catch myself at times. And I'm 72 yo.

                      I do not see "cruel" in Obama's behavior, resolute, yes.

                      Just reflect on the Medicare Part D rollout, or the Medicare rollout itself. Neither were smooth.

                      Yonder stands your orphan with his gun Crying like a fire in the sun ~Bob Dylan

                      by paz3 on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 11:45:17 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  Hmm... that is an interesting possibility to (0+ / 0-)

                      contemplate. Then again, it breaks down upon examination, to be a stretch. Why? Name a Neocon who ever had to live by having a cruel pick-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps life? Part of being a Neocon is being fabulously wealthy or on wingnut wealthy welfare, they don't do bootstraps, but they want it for every body else-The Kristols, the Feiths, etc.

                      The Pres isn't a neocon nor is his foreign policy neocon. Yes, he does have a bootstraps element I don't like in policy sometimes, as in his education policies, but upon examination, your interesting postulation breaks down. I'm not sure that his embrace of the infrastructure of the GWB national security state has anything to do with the cruel Neocon's reasons. I think it's more a political calculation that's pragamatic, but morally wrong.

                      I think he just has an idealized conception of how the system should work, bipartisan Village Idiocy. I don't really know why, but I guess being a Senator could cause some of that.

                  •  Oh please. have you thought that Obama's (0+ / 0-)

                    well publicized greeting could be called the "kiss of death?"

                    It was a brilliant masterstroke.

                    I'm asking you to believe. Not in my ability to bring about real change in Washington ... *I'm asking you to believe in yours.* Barack Obama

                    by samddobermann on Fri Nov 08, 2013 at 03:16:38 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

              •  It's never a good sign when the President's own (0+ / 0-)

                Party suggests that he should go off to Dallas.

                Offer your heart some Joy every day of your life, and spread it along to others.

                by Truedelphi on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 01:13:24 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  Everybody wants people to place nice... (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Johnny Q, doinaheckuvanutjob, Key6119

                and get along. The difference is most of us make adjustments when we discover we are wasting our time trying to achieve that with certain individuals or groups. I thought President Obama was starting to get that with the shut-down.

                "We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." - Louis D. Brandeis

                by VA6thDem on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 01:28:13 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •  You may be confusing him with somone like St (13+ / 0-)

              Ralph, who had

              a long record of causes he's assumed and fought with all his heart to put across until they're real.
              Except that they never became real.  Unlike the ACA.

              This diary is a kvetch-fest, imo.  BBB, I assume you know that this "botched rollout" script was written 3 years ago by Republicans.  Why keep pushing it?

              Best.

              •  Ralph Nader? He has a shitload of things that (15+ / 0-)

                became real and saved lives and promoted progressive causes.

                He fought, and continues to fight, the corporatocracy and its oligarchical beneficiaries rather than kowtow to them.

                We should be so lucky to have such a president.

                Throughout his career, Nader has started or inspired a variety of nonprofit organizations, with most of which he has maintained close associations:

                Citizen Advocacy Center
                Citizens Utility Boards
                Congress Accountability Project
                Consumer Task Force For Automotive Issues
                Corporate Accountability Research Project
                Disability Rights Center
                Equal Justice Foundation
                Foundation for Taxpayers and Consumer Rights
                Georgia Legal Watch
                National Citizens' Coalition for Nursing Home Reform
                National Coalition for Universities in the Public Interest
                Pension Rights Center
                PROD (truck safety)
                Retired Professionals Action Group
                The Shafeek Nader Trust for the Community Interest
                1969: Center for the Study of Responsive Law
                1970s: Public Interest Research Groups
                1970: Center for Auto Safety
                1970: Connecticut Citizen Action Group
                1971: Aviation Consumer Action Project
                1972: Clean Water Action Project
                1972: Center for Women's Policy Studies
                1973: Capitol Hill News Service
                1980: Multinational Monitor (magazine covering multinational corporations)
                1982: Trial Lawyers for Public Justice
                1982: Essential Information (encourage citizen activism and do investigative journalism)
                1983: Telecommunications Research and Action Center
                1983: National Coalition for Universities in the Public Interest
                1988: Taxpayer Assets Project, WFHW-LP
                1989: Princeton Project 55 (alumni public service)
                1993: Appleseed Foundation (local change)
                1994: Resource Consumption Alliance (conserve trees)
                1995: Center for Insurance Research
                1995: Consumer Project on Technology
                1997: Government Purchasing Project (encourage purchase of safe products)
                1998: Center for Justice & Democracy
                1998: Organization for Competitive Markets
                1998: American Antitrust Institute (ensure fair competition)
                1998: Commercial Alert (protect family, community, and democracy from corporations)
                1999: Arizona Center for Law in the Public Interest
                2000: Congressional Accountability Project (fight corruption in Congress)
                2001: Citizen Works (promote NGO cooperation, build grassroots support, and start new groups)
                2001: Democracy Rising (hold rallies to educate and empower citizens)



                "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."

                - Louis Brandies

                by Pescadero Bill on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 08:39:45 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Early on a great man was Nader. (17+ / 0-)

                  Later, ego took hold and he helped deliver George W. to the WH in 2000.

                  Should have quit while he was way ahead.

                  I'll stop calling him Boner when he stops saying I belong to the Democrat Party.

                  by al23 on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 08:59:58 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  St. Al Gore needed no help (6+ / 0-)

                    to lose the election, and give up the fight for a recount in FL.

                    don't always believe what you think

                    by claude on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 09:15:09 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  Hid ego had nothing to do with 2000 (6+ / 0-)

                    That would have been the massive election fraud by the GOP. Purged voters rolls. The Brooks Brother Riot. Supreme Court selection. Nader played a minimal role in actually causing the problems. His ego was massive later on when he decided to screw over the Green Party. He lost the nomination so he went off on his own. That the real indicator of an ego.

                    •  I dunno,he could have supported Gore in that last (8+ / 0-)

                      week, or in Florida for Election Day, or any number of things that would've been better than choosing to stay in way after he'd made his points.  He wanted to hurt the Dems, and he did.

                      •  He wanted to provide a third party option (4+ / 0-)

                        because he lives in a democracy and he rightfully saw the Dems as a corrupt neoliberal party. There will always be third parties and it's the failure of the Dems to be far enough left that gets those parties their votes. The green party would have been destroyed if it endorsed Gore.

                        He wanted to hurt the Dems, and he did.
                        He wanted to get votes, as did the green party. I've yet to see an analysis that shows that a significant number of green voters would have voted Dem if they hadn't voted green. Not to mention the fact that nearly 250k democrats voted for Bush in Florida. Maybe the party should work on keeping people from drifting right before they complain about a third of those numbers voting for the wrong  candidate.
                        •  Actually he did want to hurt the Dems. (4+ / 0-)

                          Not a crime, but true and very very costly.

                          Many, including me, see this as a classic lesson in 3rd party irresponsibility.  (I was working for Ralph myself, btw.) Others don't.  But nobody's gonna their change minds on this.  

                          Best.

                          •  Do you have any links to him talking about that? (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Johnny Q

                            I don't remember that being a theme in the campaign.

                          •  Gush/bore (5+ / 0-)

                            Nader's phrase for saying that GWB & Gore were the same.  That turned out to be a devastating mistake.

                          •  It was in his every action (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            al23, hooper

                            But he and his close advisors would admit it in unguarded moments, or when they felt they were among friends.

                            The sad thing is that he didn't even help the Greens all that much -- he absconded with the money he raised and didn't use it to help build up even the ASGP, under whose banner he ran.

                            From http://www.villagevoice.com/... --

                            Later I was introduced to Nader's closest adviser, his handsome, piercingly intelligent 30-year-old nephew, Tarek Milleron. Although Milleron argued that environmentalists and other activists would find fundraising easier under Bush, he acknowledged that a Bush presidency would be worse for poor and working-class people, for blacks, for most Americans. As Moore had, he claimed that Nader's campaign would encourage Web-based vote-swapping between progressives in safe and contested states. But when I suggested that Nader could gain substantial influence in a Democratic administration by focusing his campaign on the 40 safe states and encouraging his supporters elsewhere to vote Gore, Milleron leaned coolly toward me with extra steel in his voice and body. He did not disagree. He simply said, "We're not going to do that."

                            "Why not?" I said.

                            With just a flicker of smile, he answered, "Because we want to punish the Democrats, we want to hurt them, wound them."

                            There was a long silence and the conversation was over.

                            And:
                            Gary Sellers has a simpler way of putting it. Although Nader was the best man at Sellers's wedding, the two are no longer close. After extensive discussions with his old boss in late 1999, Sellers created Nader's Raiders for Gore in 2000. He believes Nader hated Gore, he told me, because "Gore wouldn't return his phone calls."

                            Ralph Nader exploited his reputation as a self-sacrificing idealist to pursue an utterly selfish goal. He claimed his purpose was to build the Green Party by drawing the 5 percent vote required for federal funding. But this was cover—a way of justifying his lust for revenge. Nader campaigned as the honest man who told the truth while lying about what he believed and wanted.

                            [...]

                            Nader's swing-state strategy was the crux of his anti-Gore game plan. If Nader had been truly committed to getting the Greens their 5 percent, he would have taken the safe-state route mapped out by many party advisers. In Stupid White Men, Michael Moore says he rejected Nader's invitation to join him in the battleground states as the election neared. Instead, Moore chose to work only "in those states where Ralph could get a lot of votes without being responsible for Bush winning the election." Places like New York, California, Massachusetts, and such liberal enclaves as Bush's own Austin, Texas, as Chait puts it, "offered the richest harvest of potential votes." This is what Reform Party candidate Patrick Buchanan did. Nader took precisely the opposite tack. He spent the last days of the campaign in swing states like Pennsylvania, Michigan, and, especially, Florida, which according to Sellers he visited five times all told. Pennsylvania and Michigan went Democratic, but Nader forced Gore to expend time and resources on states he should have had in his pocket. And in Florida, though Nader's poll numbers dipped from 6 percent to 4 to his final 1.6, his 97,488 voters tipped the election.

                            Reached by telephone recently, Martin explained Nader's motives as "a neat blend of his desire to go where the cameras and media are and his desire to make the Democrats pay." But even in the Nader camp this was at best partially understood. Danny Goldberg reported in Tikkun that Nader told supporters he wouldn't campaign late in swing states. Sellers suspects that Moore didn't get it until the last moment. And Ronnie Dugger, the veteran journalist who nominated Nader at the Green convention, learned about Nader's battleground-barnstorming strategy long after the election. "Why hasn't Nader been building the Green Party for the last four years?" he asked me. "Nader was more interested in beating Gore than beating Bush. And Nader has said he will not follow a safe-state strategy in 2004 either."

                            Visit http://theuptake.org/ for Minnesota news as it happens.

                            by Phoenix Woman on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 06:26:55 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  When Nader Was Asked... (7+ / 0-)

                            ...who he would vote for, Bush or Gore if someone put a gun to his head without hesitation he replied:

                            "Bush."

                            He made no bones about the fact that he wanted to hurt Gore in that election and he has blood on his hands for the 8 years this country will be paying dearly for for a long, long time.

                            “I believe all Southern liberals come from the same starting point--race. Once you figure out they are lying to you about race, you start to question everything.” ― Molly Ivins

                            by RoIn on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 11:19:08 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I remember that. (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            hooper, samddobermann

                            I'm surprised no-one else seems to. It disgusted me.

                            Why do I have the feeling George W. Bush joined the Stonecutters, ate a mess of ribs, and used the Constitution as a napkin?

                            by Matt Z on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 11:53:09 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  So the 250k democrats who voted for Bush (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Johnny Q

                            were nothing?

                            The GOP has blood on it's hands. It stole that election and blaming Nader for that theft is foolish.

                          •  Nader has to be held accountable like everyone (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            al23, hooper

                            else. Gore blew the recount strategy, but the cards were stacked against him with the R Supremes and the R House if it came to them as it could if the procedures ended it up there. Nader, though, made it clear he likes the R's more than the D's. That's immoral.

                  •  Yes, Ralph was great for a long time. Then not. (0+ / 0-)

                    My point above was just the usual...Obama is President, and that's a whole different thing than Progressive Action Hero.  (Though If Johnson & Truman can make that list, he will too eventually.)

                  •  that's an assinine statement (4+ / 0-)

                    Ralph Nader has done more good for this country than Bill Clinton, Al Gore, and Barrack Obama and his bad is far outweighed by the bad of the those three guys.

                    And for the 99th time Gore didn't fight for what was his in Florida and that is why he lost. You don't get to choose who you run against, you do choose how you run your campaign and if you are going to fight for every vote.

                    I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

                    by jbou on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 10:52:34 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                •  You left out hisunion busting of his own employees (0+ / 0-)

                  and his pride in taking Republican money for his campaign in 2000 and 2004.

                  He's also a millionaire from his stock investments. That wouldn't be so disturbing if he didn't behave like just another union buster. His excuses for rolling over his employees who just wanted a decent wage and reasonable benefits he could afford, claimed he could afford, is sickening.

            •  The examples are (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              samddobermann

              right in front of you.  You just don't want to see them.  Has he made mistakes?  Sure.  But I look at our country right now and then remember what it was like just before he took office.  Big change.  And when you take into account everything he has had on his plate, with a republican led house dedicated to obstructing everything he has tried to do, and a senate minority leader whose only goal was to get him out of office, I think he has done a decent job.  Add to that ending one war and winding down another, and repairing our relationship with the rest of the world (that is, until that NSA thing), and, again, a pretty decent job.  Oh, and killing bin laden, which no one had been able to do in over ten prior years.  It would be great if he could walk on water, but, to the best of my knowledge, only one person has mastered that, to date.
              Has his administration botched the roll-out of the ACA?  Definitely.  But he can't just drop everything else on his plate to focus solely on fixing it.  As far as enrollment numbers of younger, healthy, people into the ACA, it either will, or won't happen.

            •  Oh, come on (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              samddobermann

              Do we need to list what he's accomplished? IN SPITE OF the GOP's obstruction? Here are 50, just for starters:

              http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/...

              •  I can't believe he managed to tighten sanctions (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Johnny Q

                on Iran in the fave of GOP obstruction. They'd never let him do that.

              •  A good example of what I mean (0+ / 0-)
                1. Passed Health Care Reform: After five presidents over a century failed to create universal health insurance, signed the Affordable Care Act (2010). It will cover 32 million uninsured Americans beginning in 2014 and mandates a suite of experimental measures to cut health care cost growth, the number one cause of America’s long-term fiscal problems
                .
                Notice that that account doesn't actually tell us what he actually did to make it happen

                First of all, HE didn't "pass Obamacare," Congress did. He signed it but he didn't create it.
                Universal Healthcare was one of the goals of the Obama administration, or so they said but they never had a plan for it to begin with (Neither did the Democratic Party)  That's right, "After five presidents over a century failed to create universal health insurance," after debating it and trying to get Universal Healthcare passed for 6 decades, Obama and the Democrats had no basic plan to put forward.
                Pretty dam lame I thought at the time and still think so.

                that doesn't seem much like a "Preturnaturally gifted leader and politician," that seems like a schlunk, who finding himself in power throws out goals and objectives with no clear notion on how to achieve them.

                From wiki:  In the whole lengthy article, staring with "Healthcare debate" through "Senate and "House" on how Obamacare was enacted, these below are the ONLY sentences that mention Obama's contributions at all. It looks like Olympia Snowe had more input into the making of Obamacare than Obama did.
                Obama in no way looks like " a preternaturally gifted leader and politician in this. He looks like someone who sent his goals to Congress to make  real.

                After his inauguration, Obama announced to a joint session of Congress in February 2009 his intent to work with Congress to construct a plan for healthcare reform.[
                ......To maintain the progress of the legislative process, when Congress returned from recess, in September 2009 President Obama delivered a speech to a joint session of Congress supporting the ongoing Congressional negotiations.
                ...... Instead, President Obama issued Executive Order 13535, reaffirming the principles in the Hyde Amendment.[115
                Obama signed the ACA into law on March 23, 2010.[119] The amendment bill,
                If the other 49 things on that list are such a credit grab for other people's work, its really just a paean to Obama. If Obamacare is an example of what a "preternaturally gifted leader and politician" does than someone needs to study the terms Preturnaturally and gifted.

                Happy just to be alive

                by exlrrp on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 06:06:03 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

          •  "He's not a dictator, you know" (0+ / 0-)

            Obama is a man of compromise.  Leadership doesn't enter much into his leadership style.

            You may think that. I couldn't possibly comment.-- Francis Urqhart

            by Johnny Q on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 04:12:27 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  Don't forget that Clinton's HCR crashed & burned (26+ / 0-)

          dramatically in 1993. Remember "Hillarycare"? The "Harry & Louise" TV commercial? The 2008 Dems in Congress hadn't forgotten.

          If by some miracle, Single Payer had been enacted in 2009, it too would have had a lengthy and fractious "roll-out"... just like Social Security, Medicare and SSDI.

          Don't fall for the delusion that the "path not taken" is smooth and strewn with flowers.

          “It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing
          he was never reasoned into” - Jonathan Swift

          by jjohnjj on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:34:22 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  well, not really (0+ / 0-)
            If by some miracle, Single Payer had been enacted in 2009, it too would have had a lengthy and fractious "roll-out"... just like Social Security, Medicare and SSDI.
            The Feds could have simply lowered the Medicare eligibility age.

            That would have been a lot easier to do than to set up a difference "exchange" in every state.  Esp. when half of the states are run by people hostile to the law.

        •  And wasn't it republicans who first came up (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Kombema, wader, Johnny Q

          with the name Obamacare?  And then the Democrats finally adopted it a long while later?

          Obamacare is a good example of that---altho it has his name on it
          •  It was smart to take R's "negative" term ... (3+ / 0-)

            ... and turn it against them, making it a badge of pride.  But ...

            After you've owned it, your #1 priority had damn well better be making sure it's really going to be something to be proud of.  

            That's not happening.  And that's really, really dumb.

            •  I'll never acknowledge that as a sound strategy. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              JVolvo, RickD

              Republicans make harmful buzzwords (like Obamacare).

              Democrats adopt Republican words (like Obamacare) and try to "take them back" after years of the word being used in a vilifying sense. They use the words when there are obvious alternatives (The ACA, or "earned benefits" instead of "entitlements").

              It's not smart. In fact, it's just dumb.

              Banking on the American people to be able to sort all this out and declare the adult in the room the winner is a very big bet. -Digby

              by Boogalord on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 12:04:43 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  Let's Be Honest About Bubba's Legacy (5+ / 0-)

          DADT, DOMA, Welfare "Reform", the last vestiges of Glass-Steagall were repealed under Clinton, Clinton's Healthcare Reform plan was DOA, Clinton's Administration was marred in scandal and plagued by inaction on many fronts....Sorry, I am not buying the crap about Clinton.  Who cares about how many babies you kiss or the pain you feel if you can't do something substantive to get to the root of the pain.

          •  And these days, as he winds up his life (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            RickD

            In the Oval Office, I get the feeling Obama is trying as hard as Clinton did, to make sure and please the Corporate One Percent so that when he leaves office, he gets the
            same deal of  $ 100,000 per speech in front of Corporate Podium, (or maybe more?) that Clinton got.

            Offer your heart some Joy every day of your life, and spread it along to others.

            by Truedelphi on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 01:25:18 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I do believe that there are (0+ / 0-)

              some distinct and subtle differences between Clinton and Obama...I think that (both) Clintons are motivated by money (no ifs, ands or buts).  I don't get the sense that Obama is as motivated by material rewards, but I do believe that he is fascinated and believes in the "inherent competency" of other elites (those who have educational backgrounds similar to his own, no matter how much evidence there is that they don't know what the heck they are talking about).  While I don't expect Obama to join the Peace Corp when he leaves office (and I do expect him to deliver some well paid speeches), I suspect that his path will be slightly different from Clinton...

        •  How about the "policy school" he conducted (0+ / 0-)

          at the House Republican issue conference in 2009, without notes, for, what, an hour and a half? He needs to recapture that mojo.

          Okay, the Government says you MUST abort your child. NOW do you get it?

          by Catskill Julie on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 05:29:50 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Bullshit. Obama had a plan laid out in his (0+ / 0-)

          campaign materials. If you looked under Health care on his issues tab he had a brief summary then at the bottom you could click for a longer summary or for a white paper that was about 10 pages long that set out a detailed plan. Yes, it included a public option.

          He didn't get everything he wanted and there are some things in the law he hadn't had in the plan but it was pretty damn close.

          Do you think he should have handed each congress critter a copy and said "get to work?" That's about what Hillary did. Didn't work out too well, did it?

          Feh.

          I'm asking you to believe. Not in my ability to bring about real change in Washington ... *I'm asking you to believe in yours.* Barack Obama

          by samddobermann on Fri Nov 08, 2013 at 02:49:38 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah and Clinton got us a health care law (0+ / 0-)

          Oh wait! He didn't.

          Why don't you ask Pelosi about Obama input on the ACA? I'll bet she will differ from you.

          I'm asking you to believe. Not in my ability to bring about real change in Washington ... *I'm asking you to believe in yours.* Barack Obama

          by samddobermann on Fri Nov 08, 2013 at 02:53:57 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  I agree... (0+ / 0-)

          The CONCEPT behind the Affordable Care Act was better than the law that was actually passed. The IDEA of Barack Obama as President was more attractive than the job he's done since taking office. Pragmatism has not ruled the day in either case.

      •  If he were so "preternaturally" gifted... (7+ / 0-)

        We'd had Medicare for all. And if he were so "preternaturally," he would not have manifested such a lack of attention to detail concerning the website.

        He seems to be waiting for the $200,000-a-pop-Goldman-Sachs-lectureship circuit.

        "Goodness and karma bat last." - Anne Lamott

        by Superskepticalman on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 08:50:39 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  I couldn't agree more (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        samddobermann

        He pummeled them twice in the elections, and he is slowly, surely, with intense difficulty making huge changes in this country. Get rid of these insane Republicans, and we will be golden when Hillary takes the oval office.

      •  Here's what happened: (0+ / 0-)

        He stumbled right out of the gate with Obamacare. He should have been ready to go on day one with the legislation but instead kicked to Congress to come up with something. And he got all bipartisany, even though by then the Republicans had proven themselves to be a crime family, not a political party. He dallied while the summer came and Freedom Works created astro turf organizations. Those organizations went unanswered. Kennedy died.

        Scott Walker came in and Obamacare was diluted to the pure Republican idea it is today, with the foolish idea of having the possibility of 52 exchanges and the potential for disaster that entails.

        It has been a disaster.

        They outsmarted him.

        If you hate government, don't run for office in that government.

        by Bensdad on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 08:30:52 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Nobody has Bill Clinton's natural ability (28+ / 0-)

      to explain things to ordinary folks. Ronald Reagan had a preternatural ability to lie to people about economics but ordinary mortals don't  have Clinton's and Reagan's communication skills.

      look for my eSci diary series Thursday evening.

      by FishOutofWater on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 06:27:00 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  The staff has been awful from the beginning. (35+ / 0-)

      I've been complaining about it for years. The most significant social legislation in a generation and you've got a White House that can't sell it. Ridiculous.

      I was saying at the Recovery Act rollout that he is really badly served by his staff. Except when it comes to campaign staff. CLEARLY, they know what the fuck they're doing and do it right. But in the White House? Awful.

      •  I don't think they really understand (17+ / 0-)

        what it is like to be disadvantaged in this country -- whether by age, race, religion, disability, or (the biggest factor) economics.

        Has anyone on that staff even been poor? I don't mean the President; I mean his staff.

        I'll bet they all went to Ivies, or close approximations thereof, and they've never -- or rarely -- had to worry about where to find a job, a meal, or help with a medical issue.

        They have no empathy for the common person below a certain income level.

        And those who MIGHT have grown up disadvantaged have long since forgotten what it's like to not have one's basic life needs filled.

        That seemed clear to me when everyone was ready to toss so many people into the Medicaid system without a single thought about what would happen to them. Everyone hates Medicaid patients: they bitch about them everywhere. Why handicap the program from the start like that?

        Because nobody in the White House or Congressional staffs has to depend on it.

        They don't understand and they just don't care.

        "The difference between the right word and the almost-right word is like the difference between lightning and the lightning bug." -- Mark Twain

        by Brooke In Seattle on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:21:26 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  mr.u and I have great ins. (8+ / 0-)

          He works for the school district and is in the union. We have insurance that is as good as any can buy in the state. My neighbors are on Medicaid. They have it better than us when it comes to health care.

          If something happens and they need to go to an ER, they go. We pay $500 cash up front if we go and that doesn't count towards our $2500 deductible. When it comes to hospitalization we pay 20% after we meet the deductible as well. Medicaid? zip

          I need a surgery right now and I'm putting it off because of cost. mr.u probably needs another sinus surgery, same thing. On Medicaid it would just be done and we wouldn't pay a dime out of pocket.

          I think that expanding Medicaid is a great idea, another back door to single payer in fact and the only "glitch" in that was thrown in by SCOTUS.

          And daddy won't you take me back to Muhlenberg County Down by the Green River where Paradise lay. Well, I'm sorry my son, but you're too late in asking Mister Peabody's coal train has hauled it away. John Prine

          by high uintas on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:55:23 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  It also depends on how old you are. (3+ / 0-)

            I just found out recently that those over age 55 who get put on Medicaid are liable for repayment from their estates in some states.

            That is, if you have a house or retirement fund, Medicaid can go after your family to recoup their losses after you are dead.

            Since I'm 57, I guess that would mean me. Maybe it's a blessing they won't let me use it. But I don't have anything of value -- no house or retirement fund. I just worry they would go after my children for it.

            Medicaid is complained about by practitioners who don't get enough reimbursements and pharmacies who fill scrips for one customer for free while another with insurance can't afford the co-pay.

            I am sorry you and your husband are experiencing the health issues you are. I've had to forgo lots of health care, but mine are things like a blown knee, high blood pressure, and such.

            I wish we ALL had decent health care in this country, and that it didn't keep dividing even people on the same political side.

            Peace.

            "The difference between the right word and the almost-right word is like the difference between lightning and the lightning bug." -- Mark Twain

            by Brooke In Seattle on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 08:41:55 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  This repayment is primarily for nursing (7+ / 0-)

              home expenses, not for medical treatment per se.  People can't qualify for Medicaid if they have more than certain amounts of assets, including the value of their home.  This provision permits the elderly to qualify for Medicaid even though the value of their home exceeds the minimum, and avoids the home having to be sold and the proceeds used before qualifying for Medicaid.  If you're under 55 and have a home with a half million in equity, you won't qualify for Medicaid.  If you're over 55, you will, but if you don't have a spouse living in the home, a lien can be placed on the home to ensure repayment.  

              It would be wonderful if everyone could be assured all necessary medical care without reimbursement.  But at $6,000 a month or more for a nursing home, it's difficult to keep costs within a manageable level, and that's one method they use.

              •  The repayment from the estates of older (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                beverlywoods

                Medicaid enrollees (55 and over) can include monthly premiums that were paid to HMO's ("capitation" cost) even though the enrollee uses very few services for many years. The only qualification for Medicaid under the ACA in California is annual income less than appx. $16,000. Older people with that income qualify for subsidized premiums available through the exchanges and might pay $37 for a Blue Shield Silver policy costing $478 in Central California, with no estate recovery for the cost of the subsidy.

                The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right. -- Judge Learned Hand, May 21, 1944

                by ybruti on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 12:30:54 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  It would be wonderful if the rules were changed (0+ / 0-)

                  to this extent under the ACA, although I've heard nothing about it.  Two states exempted homes from the asset calculation for a long time, but the Federal government told them - change that or lose all Federal payments for Medicaid.  So I'd be somewhat surprised to find out the rules have changed to that extent.

                  •  The rules have changed for those states with (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    gustynpip, samddobermann

                    Medicaid Expansion. The following was written in 2010 before states were able to opt out: The ACA “requires states to use a net income standard (no asset or resource test, no income disregards) to determine [Medicaid] eligibility.” Yep, you read that right, bye-bye asset test. Hello simple income test. The new federal income eligibility threshold will be 133% of the federal poverty level (effective 1/1/14). Link

                    This improved access to Medicaid is also reported in Inside National Health Reform by John E. McDonough, p. 144.  (published in 2011)

                    The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right. -- Judge Learned Hand, May 21, 1944

                    by ybruti on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 12:59:03 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Why the hell hasn't the admin been crowing (0+ / 0-)

                      about this to the rooftops???  This alone would turn an enormous number of people into fans of the ACA.  People are terrified of losing their homes and other if they need to enter the nursing home.  If they don't have to face that prospect, and it's due to the ACA, older folks will Love It.  

                      •  Medicaid rules have not changed with regard (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        beverlywoods

                        to "estate recovery," it seems.  For people 55 and over, Medicaid is still really a loan to be "clawed back" from the estate when a person dies. That can even include premiums the state has paid to HMO's for an enrollee. However, with the federal government paying 90% of Medicaid Expansion costs, it seems wrong and perhaps not correct that the state could claw all of them back from an estate. Re-paying nursing home costs after the death of a patient is still required from the sale of a home and other assets in an estate, if there is anything in an estate, but if a sibling or child or spouse lives in the home, etc. that might be waived. Rules vary from state to state.  Prior to Medicaid Expansion in California, a person could qualify for Medi-Cal if they had no more than $2000, a car, and a home. Now, an income of more than about $16,000 would qualify a person for subsidized insurance and be too high for Medi-Cal. In other words, Medi-Cal is great for younger people, but a complex issue for the 55-and-over group.

                        The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right. -- Judge Learned Hand, May 21, 1944

                        by ybruti on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 01:51:08 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

            •  Estate Recovery (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              beverlywoods

              All states are required to undergo estate recovery for medicaid beneficiaries. In most states, all medical services are recoverable for all beneficiaries 55 and older. Long term care (nursing home care services) are also recoverable for people younger than 55. Thus, if you are 55 and older and agree to accept Medicaid, you are agreeing to a delayed bankruptcy. You agree to accept medical services, but when you die, all of your benefits must be paid back. I'm not sure whether capitation costs and interest are recoverable, but most commentators on this site seem to say that at least capitation costs are recoverable.

              For the most part, if you are expecting an inheritance from someone on medicaid, that owns no real property, you can forget about it. All of the estate's assets is going to go to the government. This will especially be true if the beneficiary was on long term care. Long term care these days costs about $80,000 per year.

      •  "The staff has been awful from the beginning" (13+ / 0-)

        Yes, especially his staff who advocated for him saying over and over again, "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor."  Which isn't true.  "And if you like your insurance, you can keep your insurance," which also isn't true.

        That was a big, big, big mistake.  

        I think you have some great marketing ideas.

        This might have been a good move, but I'm wondering just how much the insurance companies really want to cooperate and do this:  

        On Tuesday, White House Chief of Staff Denis McDonough met with a group of insurance executives to discuss ways insurers can help appease the growing number of U.S. residents whose coverage is being canceled, Reuters reports (Morgan/Rampton, Reuters, 11/5).

        [...]

        During the meeting at the White House, McDonough asked a group of insurance executives to help consumers who received the cancellation notices to understand their options under the ACA, including that they might be eligible for subsidies to help lower their costs (Sink, "Healthwatch," The Hill, 11/5).

        White House press secretary Jay Carney said that McDonough emphasized that all stakeholders involved in the exchanges are responsible for ensuring that consumers who cannot continue with their current policy are fully informed of their options (Felsenthal, Reuters, 11/5). In order to accomplish this, McDonough urged insurers to "ramp up communication and education efforts" with such individuals (Lederman, AP/Sacramento Bee, 11/5).

        http://www.californiahealthline.org/...
        •  some allowances there (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          samddobermann

          Obama says to taxpayer "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor."

          And then the doctor dies.  Taxpayer screams "You lied!"

          Obama says to taxpayer "If you like your policy, you can keep your policy."

          And then the insurance company discontinues the policy.  Taxpayer screams "You lied!"

          The basic point is that Obama didn't lie.  What he was saying was that the government wouldn't force insurance companies to change their policies, but rather they could be grandfathered in.  

          Insurance companies decided to not do that.

          •  I like my doctor (0+ / 0-)

            but if I qualify for insurance on the exchange, I can't keep my doctor. NH only has one insurance provider, Anthem. Anthem decided to limit its "network" to 16 out of the 26 hospitals in the state. The hospital my doctor is affiliated with (Frisbie in Rochester) has had the best deal for uninsured patients in the state. That hospital and the 80 doctors that go with it are not part of the "network" as far as Anthem is concerned.

            So now we watch as the "competition for profit under a monopoly" battles take place. But meantime, it looks like I can't keep my doctor.

            If you act out of anger, the best part of your brain fails to function. - the Dalai Lama

            by beverlywoods on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:49:56 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  start fighting with the insurance company (0+ / 0-)

              and call the hospitals business office and try to get them to get on the insurers panel.

              Also call the insurance regulator in the state and see what they can do. The ACA funds at least one person to help those ith insurance with their problems with insurers

              It can be done.

              It is likely after the first year other insurers will come in — when they have some data to go on.

              Or pay the out of network cost for that one doctor.

              I'm asking you to believe. Not in my ability to bring about real change in Washington ... *I'm asking you to believe in yours.* Barack Obama

              by samddobermann on Fri Nov 08, 2013 at 05:36:37 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

      •  It's pretty much of a motif with Obama (3+ / 0-)

        that the people he delegates stuff to- the agency heads, for example- seem too passive and cautious, too willing to go out of the way of a fight.  In his/our war with the GOP he hasn't installed the sufficient number of hard generals who are determined to win it.

        He had Rahm Emmanuel for that job for a while.  But Rahm greatly prefers to fight pressures from the Left rather than the Right.

        Having said all that, inside the Congress the ACA ended up the muddle and defective compromise it is because the major factions wanted to prolong the fighting about it and all the related issues.  Everyone realized that something like the German/Swiss system/single payer is the technical solution we'll end up at.   But if we were to implement it straight up with full force of the federal government, all the arguments about "religious freedom" (aka indirect political power exertion of the RCC on contraceptive availability) and public health issues related to guns and notions of undeserving classes of Americans get swept away in fairly short order.  We couldn't have that, could we.

    •  one incident (15+ / 0-)

      about campaigning which he doesn't like all that much,  which I think was widely acknowledged in his run, and needed a similar ass kicking in Iowa.  So the flip side, is commentary on governing, and many times those stories come out with the President kicking staff ass to come up with better plans, rejecting military suggestions and telling them to come back with something better, etc.

      He isn't perfect,he has weaknesses.  But to make it sound like he can't explain things,  means nobody watched him when he took apart the Republicans at their caucus or the televised negotiations,  he can and does explain things.

      And I am always thankful he isn't Bill Clinton.

      •  The issue isn't the president personally in my (31+ / 0-)

        view, except that he has chosen a bunch of fuckups to run White House operations. And has for years.

        The President doesn't have time to do the blocking and tackling of a marketing campaign, which was this has to be. Basically, we have to go out and sell health insurance to people who currently don't have it, and convince them to buy it. We're not doing that very well.

        Where's Will.I.AM, and all that? Where's the star studded signup events that will cause a local Congressman or candidate in a GOP district to say 'hmmm....that's a lot of people. I think I ought to be there!'

        We've got none of that and I don't expect the president to be thinking about that sort of thing. I expect the staff to do that and go to the president and say 'sir..show up here with Oprah and we will get 15,000. Show up here with Katy Perry and get yourself another 30,000.'

        That's how this shit should be popping.

        •  You've got a lot of great (10+ / 0-)

          marketing and political outreach ideas for getting folks enrolled under the ACA. I hadn't even been thinking of it in terms of pure product marketing, chock full of celebrity endorsement, until reading this diary. Not that I'm a huge fan of corporate marketing, but they wouldn't do it if it didn't work.

          As for this:

          ...except that he has chosen a bunch of fuckups to run White House operations. And has for years.
          Sadly, this seems to be a time-honored tradition for most Presidents.
        •  Fabulous idea - signup events (5+ / 0-)

          Just have to figure out where to get the $$$ to make it happen.  College tours worked pretty well in the campaigns.

          Reach out your hand if your cup be empty, If your cup is full may it be again,

          by VPofKarma on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:58:42 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Even more simply they needed direct mail (5+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          oofer, greengemini, CupofTea, Johnny Q, jfromga

          They should have mailed every American household detailed information about Obamacare with instructions on how to enroll.  

          They needed a marketing plan with multiple forms of communication.  

          •  They wouldn't have read it. A whole lot of (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ems97206, jfromga

            people just have no interest unless a celebrity is involved.  While I'm not big on BBB's nitpicking, I think the WH should be hiring him as a marketing agent for the ACA.

            •  If 1 out of 10 read it, that would be 30 million (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              mconvente, Johnny Q, jfromga

              That's why you need multiple forms of communication.  ACA can be important for people over 50 and they're not watching Miley Cyrus.  For this law to work over the long run it needs middle class buy in and so you have to market to the middle class not just at events that sign up the poor or to kids who get all their info on their phone.

              •  The kids are the ones that are actually "needed" (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                jfromga

                to get signed up.  And people over 50 would be as unlikely to read it as anyone else.  They might not be watching Miley Cyrus, but a whole lot of them are following a whole lot of other celebrities.  

          •  Thugs sabotagued even small efforts. Remember (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            jfromga

            the 'McConnell threatened NFL' stories?  They also prohibited or blocked funds for certain marketing expenditures iirc.

            It doesn't excuse the staff's not thinking outside the box to get around this - or BOs apparently thinking he was done with campaigning after Nov. '13.  His distaste for campaigning (or using his office for it) is one of his faults.  
            The apparently inability or refusal of staff to understand that marketing is essential to governing is one of theirs.

            Why eg has he not had monthly prime-time addresses announcing new jobs initiatives but leading with a repetition of all the proposals he's made the Thugs have sat on? It doesn't matter if the new plan has a chance in hell, its the message not the policy that counts here.  The public is ADD and the media co-opted and complicit.  The only way to get voters to remember anything is to continually repeat it until it becomes a meme.

            And its not like the Adm. hasn't do something like this.  They routinely announce new plans.  But, its is the middle of the day and the media covers-then-ignores it.  The only way to get around the media is going directly to the people.  The weekend chats don't do that: again practically no one sees them and the media does not repeat them.  Only prime-time does that.  If the media refuses to cover it, which some might well at least after a while, that too sells the meme by illustrating how they are so co-opted that they literally don't care if you have a job.  

            I'm good with the voters understanding that the only folks who care if they have jobs are Democrats.

            (P.S.: The Adm./Potus rarely re-iterate the litany of blocked jobs proposals, probably for fear it might show impotence.  That is a serious mistake imo.)

        •  Where's the money for all that? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jfromga

          They tried to get funds for the roll out and the House wouldn't pass it.

          They tried to get the PRO football teams to come out in support and the Repubs wrote them letters saying don't you dare.

          What are YOU doing?

          I'm asking you to believe. Not in my ability to bring about real change in Washington ... *I'm asking you to believe in yours.* Barack Obama

          by samddobermann on Fri Nov 08, 2013 at 05:41:16 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  those are good ideas (0+ / 0-)

          now the question is how to find the ear of someone who might have the power to make it happen and who would listen.   Because it really would help.

      •  Good point. He was masterful as he took (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jfromga

        the Gopers arguments apart one by one and his depth of knowledge on health care was amazing.

        (p.s. - my agreement and recommendation doesn't include the gratuitous last line)

        Proud to be a Democrat

        by Lying eyes on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 11:01:55 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  that's fine (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Lying eyes

          lots of people have different views of people.   As for it being gratuitous, maybe but in the context of the post I was replying to,   I wouldn't trade Obama for Clinton's consumer political skills, it doesn't occur to me to miss them or him, ever.  And as all comparisons are to some degree invidious, I felt it was fair game to rebut the 'if only Obama were more like Clinton' line of thought.

    •  Axelrod's waaay overrated...bigger ACA prob's... (23+ / 0-)

      ...immediately ahead...

      Top U.S. insurer sees weak Obamacare sign-ups, prepares for delay, Reuters (11/6/13)

      Look to the health insurer's "revised" revenue projections for some of the realities, ahead! They're always playing the "expectations game" in the markets; and, those tell us a LOT.

      And, then there's some of the more reality-based reporting from inside the Party on Capitol Hill...

      Obama gets earful from Senate Democrats about health law woes, Reuters (11/7/13)

      Yes, the optimism and spin in the Party, and even moreso in this community, about the underbelly of the ACA rollout, is being supplanted by a calendar that holds no prisoners and suffers no bullshit in our reality-based world.

      "I always thought if you worked hard enough and tried hard enough, things would work out. I was wrong." --Katharine Graham

      by bobswern on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 06:41:07 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  yep (10+ / 0-)
        about the underbelly of the ACA rollout, is being supplanted by a calendar that holds no prisoners and suffers no bullshit in our reality-based world.
        and 2014 is only eight weeks away. And i have yet to hear about the contingency plans if the website cannot be made functional in the next three weeks.

        Are we really going to start the new year will millions of people having lost their healthcare coverage? This could make people forget New Coke.

        •  The only question my mentor asked me when (11+ / 0-)

          I presented him with my very first computer program was

          What are you going to do when it fails?

          That's a question I took with my on every project throughout my career.   No one can do project management without knowing their critical points of failure.  It's never been a web site problem, it's a project management problem.

        •  Has that really been addressed by the White House (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Johnny Q

          or the HHS?

          Are we really going to start the new year will millions of people having lost their healthcare coverage? This could make people forget New Coke.
          If they can't sign up by December 15, 2013, what are they supposed to do?

          Sebelius said during her testimony, paraphrasing, that most insurance companies have a small window of a few weeks to choose their next year's coverage, Medicare has I think a month, but the ACA HAS SIX MONTHS.

        •  there isn't one website (0+ / 0-)

          "And i have yet to hear about the contingency plans if the website cannot be made functional in the next three weeks."

          There are many websites.  Every state that has its own exchange has its own website.

          What Maryland is doing is something that the government should be doing at large.  Maryland not only has help phone lines for people who don't want to use the website, they also have regional offices in every part of the state, where a person could walk in and talk to a human being about getting enrolled in the program.

          The problem with fixing websites is that often the amount of time needed is hard to determine until all of the bugs are fixed.  And the issues here are not with the website so much as with how the various servers communicate with each other.  

          Rather than stressing over the website, the administration should just make sure that people have access to a way to get enrolled in the program itself.

          That's not the same thing.

      •  I would like to read that Reuters story (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bobswern, triv33

        about the Senate Dems, but I get a malware warning and the site shuts down when I go there.

        And I have Ad Block running.

        "The difference between the right word and the almost-right word is like the difference between lightning and the lightning bug." -- Mark Twain

        by Brooke In Seattle on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:29:06 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Here's the text... (7+ / 0-)

          By Steve Holland and Roberta Rampton

          WASHINGTON/DALLAS | Wed Nov 6, 2013 10:20pm EST

          (Reuters) - President Barack Obama met on Wednesday with frustrated Senate Democrats, some of whom fear the disastrous rollout of his signature healthcare law could complicate their already difficult re-election fights in 2014.

          The Obama administration has faced intense criticism since hundreds of thousands of people had their health insurance policies canceled because the plans do not meet new benefit requirements, despite Obama's pledge that Americans could keep their current plans under Obamacare.

          The fallout has been exacerbated by the fact that those affected cannot shop easily for insurance alternatives on the malfunctioning website, HealthCare.gov.

          Obama, joined by Vice President Joe Biden, sat down with 16 Senate Democrats, 15 of them who are up for re-election next year, many of them facing competitive races.

          One of the senators, Mark Begich of Alaska, said he expressed his frustration at the website during the two-hour session. It has not worked properly since going live on October 1.

          "It's absolutely unacceptable in this day and age that the administration can't deliver on the promises it made to all Americans because of technical problems with a website," Begich said.

          Senate Mark Pryor of Arkansas said after the meeting, "The American people are frustrated with the White House's botched rollout of the Affordable Care Act, and I am too." Pryor said he wants Obama to hold "individuals in charge" accountable for the launch.

          The meeting came just before Obama left for Dallas to speak at two fundraisers for the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee.

          Obama told donors that 2014 congressional elections would be a tough fight.

          "The math is difficult for the Senate," Obama said. "If we don't give them the help that they need, then we could end up with a situation in which we've got a majority Republican Senate along with a majority Republican House."

          In a sign of its political potency, the rocky launch of Obamacare appeared to help Republican Ken Cuccinelli cut into the lead enjoyed by Democratic Party insider Terry McAuliffe, who won Tuesday's election for Virginia governor.

          'GOING TO GET THIS DONE'

          Some of the senators have said they want the enrollment period extended beyond March 31. But Obama believes there is enough time to fix HealthCare.gov and get people enrolled, White House spokesman Jay Carney told reporters.

          "We'll be able to do that within the six-month enrollment period that we talked about," Carney said aboard Air Force One.

          As many as 7 million Americans were expected to sign up for coverage in the first year through the online exchanges established under the 2010 Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, according to the Congressional Budget Office. The law, upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court last year, mandates everyone have healthcare insurance coverage or pay a tax.

          A significant shortfall in enrollees, particularly among young and healthy people who cost less to insure, would undermine the ability of the exchanges to work financially.

          Before the fundraisers in Dallas, Obama met about 100 volunteers helping people sign up for health insurance.

          Dallas-Fort Worth has 1.1 million people without health insurance. In his motorcade, Obama passed protesters holding signs saying: "LIAR!" and "No Obamacare."

          He got a warm welcome from volunteers and thanked them for their help and urged them to keep working with the uninsured.

          "I just want all of you to remember that as challenging as this may seem sometimes, as frustrating as Healthcare.Gov may be sometimes, we are going to get this done," Obama said.

          Obama's top healthcare lieutenant was on Capitol Hill again on Wednesday where senators from both parties asked for details on the problems.

          Democratic Senator Max Baucus, chairman of the U.S. Senate Finance Committee, said he was disappointed to hear the administration say it did not see problems with HealthCare.gov coming.

          "When we asked for updates on the marketplaces, the responses we got were totally unsatisfactory. We heard multiple times that everything was on track. We now know that was not the case," he told Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius.

          Obama said the website should be operating smoothly for most people by the end of November.

          "Right now, I'm not happy with some IT (information technology) people in Washington," he told donors at one of the fundraisers in Dallas.

          His comment came after a shakeup at the government technology office that supervised HealthCare.gov.

          Tony Trenkle, head of technology at the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, is leaving the agency for the private sector, CMS spokeswoman Julie Bataille said on Wednesday.

          She said he "oversees all of our IT functions," but declined to describe his role in the website or say whether he had been asked to leave.

          (Reporting by Steve Holland and Roberta Rampton; Additional reporting by Susan Cornwell; Editing by Karey Van Hall, Mohammad Zargham and Peter Cooney)

          "I always thought if you worked hard enough and tried hard enough, things would work out. I was wrong." --Katharine Graham

          by bobswern on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:53:49 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  They're focused on the Grand Bargain & TPP (6+ / 0-)

        Two items on their agenda that they want passed as quickly and quietly as possible, preferably before Congress recesses for the Holidays.

        This ACA stuff is a big distraction for them.

        If cutting Social Security & Medicare benefits for low income seniors is what Democrats do after they win a budget standoff, I'd hate to see what they do after they lose one.

        by Betty Pinson on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:38:34 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Corporate interests have been above the (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          WisePiper, Johnny Q

          people's interests in this administration in almost every single case and serious decision point.  There's no getting around the fact that this is a heavily Wall Street/Corporate White House from beginning to end.

          Is that Obama's fault? Does he really believe that way or does he believe he is helping people?  Well, he appointed all the people who are doing this work. The buck stops at the Oval Office desk.  

          "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

          by YucatanMan on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 01:05:09 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Well said (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        caldera, Kickemout, Willa Rogers

        Obamacare will create well-deserving winners, and I wish them the best, but it's also going to create undeserving losers.

        Unfortunately, it seems many here are clinging to some all-winners fantasy and pretend the undeserving losers don't exist. Hence these manifestations of textbook cognitive dissonance:

        1. People are lying about how much Obamacare is hurting them. [rec list]
        2. People and the media are lying about the healthcare.gov Web site because of the diarist's anecdote involving an unclear goal, so everyone should please stop saying healthcare.gov doesn't work. [rec list]
        3. Diarist with negative experiences been around on DKos for years but has a comment history that has a whiff of Saturnian energy and too many words with a numerological value of 6? Busted! Right-wing infiltrator.

        Fortunately, there'll soon be a critical mass of negative experiences in which these knee-jerk, unhelpful-to-ACA responses give way to something more reasonable and considered. As noted in a recent diary, I believe the more reasonable response will be a refined version of the "junk insurance" angle -- but it remains to be seen whether that's going to placate people who insist they knew what they were paying for and had a history of approved claims for acceptable premiums/co-pays/deductibles.

      •  CBS reported the meeting with the (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        triv33, slinkerwink, Pluto, Johnny Q

        Senators and implied that the meeting was held so that the Democratic senators could tell their constituents that they met with Obama to complain about the ACA.  (Implying that will cover them in their reelection.)

      •  That's why if Obama hadn't been so keen on the (9+ / 0-)

        idea that corporations are the savior of this great nation, he'd have fought tooth and nail for single payer trying to get a majority of public opinion on his side even if it didn't pass for no other reason than to start squeezing the insurance industry's balls in a vice.

        He had his shot, but he chose corporations over people-powered government like a sucker thinking a "three-card Monte" dealer was actually being a nice friendly guy that was actually rooting for his success.

        Instead, now the insurance industry has momentum on their side and are starting to take advantage.

        And the law demands people buy in.

        Fuck.



        "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."

        - Louis Brandies

        by Pescadero Bill on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 08:53:34 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Clinton & Obama have different styles... (10+ / 0-)

      My impression is, that Clinton loves talking and meeting people. He excells at getting his points across in a way that average folks can relate to.  Obama has the skills to communicate when he puts his mind to it, he can inspire people--- but it isn't the part of the job he enjoys.  

      I remember hearing stories about Clinton "melting down", though.  Probably not over anything like a debate.  I don't know how true these stories are--- these guys are human, after all, and the pressures are incredible.  Especially when you consider the fact that the entire presidency of any Democrat is going to be consumed with fighting constant attempts by Republicans to destroy your life and reputation.

      I wonder what qualifies as a "meltdown" where Obama is concerned?  He is such a cool customer, that I'm guessing if he raises his voice at all, that is a "meltdown" for him.

      •  Clinton was failing in Arkansas (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        VPofKarma, Chaoslillith, mconvente

        Until he was flown around in a small plane by a man named Hillary Jones, who taught him how to talk to "just folks" in the hills and other poor areas.

        Not many people know that, it appears.



        Women create the entire labor force.
        ---------------------------------------------
        Sympathy is the strongest instinct in human nature. - Charles Darwin

        by splashy on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:30:55 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  WTF? (21+ / 0-)
      Obama's great at reading a speech, but get him out of that mode in trying to explain things to ordinary folks and he often seems out of his depth.
      He's provided a means for all of us to get affordable health insurance.  

      That's an enormous accomplishment and has nothing to do with "giving a speech."

    •  After all that (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Loge, kefauver, Matt Z

      he fucking rocked in all subsequent debates. great men are all idiosyncratic, he is too.

    •  right wing teleprompter meme. (8+ / 0-)

      oh, and while i know it's popular to malign OFA here, they're actually working on getting people signed up for the ACA.  I think one can acknowledge Obama's not served well all the time by his staff without getting to the conclusion that he doesn't know how to be President, which is ridiculous.

      Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

      by Loge on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:24:50 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Too much "hands off" management (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      greenbell, Johnny Q

      not enough concern or desire to learn about policy and administrative details continues to be a problem keeping this Administration in a bubble.

      Their entire focus is on political gamesmanship, not on doing the job they were elected to do - run the Executive Branch, get bills passed in Congress.

      This is why the economy is still a shambles, unemployment is high and poverty reaching new heights.  No one in the Obama administration is working on it.  

      Like him or no, its the one area where Bill Clinton and Al Gore excelled.  They paid attention to details, they showed up at the office every day focused on running the government, fixing the economy, keeping the US out of war.  This Administration? No way.  All of the focus is on running a political campaign - fundraising, political games and communications.  

      If cutting Social Security & Medicare benefits for low income seniors is what Democrats do after they win a budget standoff, I'd hate to see what they do after they lose one.

      by Betty Pinson on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:31:57 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  This thread went from constructive criticism (20+ / 0-)

      to full on ODS in no time flat. A new record, if you ask me.

      "HIS BRAIN JUST CAN'T HANDLE THE JOB!!!!"

      Jesus. A new low.

      You never trust a millionaire/Quoting the sermon on the mount/I used to think I was not like them/But I'm beginning to have my doubts -- The Arcade Fire

      by tomjones on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 07:49:01 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  "Without Plouff or Axelrod"... So let me get this (9+ / 0-)

      straight. Barack Obama, who is a master of grass roots campaigning, would not be anything wiothout Plouff or Axelrod.

      For your information, Barack Obama (before Plouff and Axelrod) is responsible for organizing one of the largest voter registration drives in the history of the Democratic Party, an effort which helped Bill Clinton win his 1992 Presidential election.

      Nothing new here. When those who despise the President on the Right and Left have failed in convincing the world, for more than five years, that the President is a loser or corrupt, they will try to paint him as incompetent....

      Same ship....different day.

    •  He might have had pre-debate butterfiles (5+ / 0-)

      But he kicked ass in that second debate. Isn't that what counts?

      Useless gossip from Double Down.  Where is Theodore H. White (Making of the President(s)) when you need him. I, know, like so many others, dead.

      I'll stop calling him Boner when he stops saying I belong to the Democrat Party.

      by al23 on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 08:56:44 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Not a pile on (0+ / 0-)

      but from the beginning he struck me as a mediocrity, a middle manager who neither deigns to do detail work (shouldn't he have asked whether the computers that serves his signature bill was ready for prime time?), nor the integrity nor insight to be a good executive (hire excellent people to make sure the program would be up and running).  

      Clinton has described him as "luckier than a dog with two d**ks."  I think he means to be in the position he is in.

      He who would trade liberty for security deserves great customer service.

      by Publius2008 on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 08:57:06 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well, in defense, I'd rather be lucky than good. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Rick Aucoin, Johnny Q

        There are people who have fuckin luck, and you'd be crazy to bet against the lucky. On paper, they are usually the least likely and expected to succeed. But when you got luck, you don't really need anything else.

      •  That from the guy who won because of a third (0+ / 0-)

        party candidate. And was impeached cause he screwed up on details.

        You know Buffett said Obama would be capable and he would have him running one of his companies and I think he knows more than you. He's done a number of things functioning as an executive and done them well.

        Let's see, FEMA works well, the Labor department is functioning and making a difference, more than 20 police department are being investigated for excessive brutality, and the list could go on.

        I'm asking you to believe. Not in my ability to bring about real change in Washington ... *I'm asking you to believe in yours.* Barack Obama

        by samddobermann on Fri Nov 08, 2013 at 06:11:42 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Oh my. A litle tidbit of gossip certainly causes (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sviscusi

      you to reach incredibly broad conclusions.  I don't think Obama has been a particularly good president and I've often been disappointed in him.  But the kind of petty nitpicking contained in this comment is just plain silly.

    •  While I was disappointed in his (0+ / 0-)

      Past negotiating skills, can I just say that I am thrilled with this last BS go around with the Repubs.

    •  Weird, weird, incorrect, and off topic Dallasdoc (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      poco, doroma

      This diarist makes an excellent point and you sabotage.  Good for you for being toxic.

      Now you make everyone come to the Presiden'ts defense instead of discusssing how to make Obamacare work.

      I have worked hard all my life as an independent contractor and I need Obamacare.

      Romney's whole business was about maximizing debt, extracting cash, cutting head counts, skimping on capital spending, outsourcing production, and dressing up the deal for the earliest, highest-profit exit possible. -- David Stockman.

      by CupofTea on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 10:14:48 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  REALLY? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Matt Z, doroma

      Did you just babble this crap?

      REALLY?

    •  Whoah, WTF? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Matt Z, doroma, samddobermann

      Seriously?

      ANYTHING right?

      WT-everloving-F?

      Hyperbole much?


      "The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance, but to overcome it" - Dr. Lawrence Krauss

      by AlyoshaKaramazov on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 11:23:29 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yet another indication that in (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      greenbell, WisePiper

      The New Millennium, we don't have Presidents, we have Corporate Spokespeople.

      When so many of his initial appointments were former Clinton and yes, even Bush appointees, it became obvious that the man doesn't have a grand imagination. (Or maybe any imagination?) Speech giving was his specialty, but a president whose main talent is speeches is not about to accomplish what America needs.

      America needed a FDR, or Eisenhower or Kennedy. Heck, even a Truman would have been okay. One of the reasons that FDR was great was he was from the monied class, so he didn't feel that he had to "get in good" with that class.

      Same with Kennedy. And Eisenhower was in an unique situation as having been the Commander of the Largest and most hard fighting and successful army America had had, he knew the Military Industrial complex from the inside out.

      It was his genius to see to it that community hospitals got built, community colleges, and the national highway system as well.  With so many returning GI's back in the workforce, America became prosperous for several decades, starting with Eisenhower's concepts. All because E valued money spent on schools and hospitals more than money spent on war and weaponry. (Perhaps seeing so much devastation in Europe showed him where that sort of spending ultimately went.)

      So now in 2013, our infra structure is shot, and our schools are short on cash, and the hospitals, that need to have been reinforced for the massive patient use they can anticipate should the ACA succeed, and good ol Obama is spending Tuesday afternoons deciding which "terrorist" our drones should hit.

      Offer your heart some Joy every day of your life, and spread it along to others.

      by Truedelphi on Thu Nov 07, 2013 at 01:04:28 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Sure. He's on your side, you know. (0+ / 0-)

      Have a glance at this (in case you don't believe it):

       http://neweconomicperspectives.org/...

    •  YOu guys going to finance this grand (0+ / 0-)

      Campaign? You have the rent for Barclays, what ever that is?

      You know they asked for funding to help with the roll out and for publicizing it and the funding was denied?

      You can't expect people to sit in a stadium or whatever and just make up their minds about which policy to choose.

      And there is no sense in being all rah rah about it until the website is fixed.

      Taking your thinking from a gossip column book shows where you are coming from. The authors haven't forgiven Obama for defeating Hillary and then McCain.

       

      I'm asking you to believe. Not in my ability to bring about real change in Washington ... *I'm asking you to believe in yours.* Barack Obama

      by samddobermann on Fri Nov 08, 2013 at 02:42:15 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  The story "explained a lot," if you believe it. (0+ / 0-)

      That is, if you're predisposed to believe everything bad you hear about Obama. It should take an open-minded person more than reading one book, however "sourced" it may be, to be persuaded of the author's point of view.

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