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View Diary: As much as I love Elizabeth Warren... (108 comments)

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  •  Here's a better example (6+ / 0-)

    The President on more than one occasion has said something like

    Families across the country are tightening their belts so the government must do the same
    From an economic policy point of view this is exactly backwards. One of the advantages of a big federal government is that it can offset the contractionary effect of families tightening their belts by loosening its own (so to speak).

    And the result is that the American people are convinced that fiscal austerity is good for them personally and for the country as a whole.

    My main point is that it matters what kinds of policies and arguments are being advanced by the White House even when they are not immediately or directly implemented.

    "The smartest man in the room is not always right." -Richard Holbrooke

    by Demi Moaned on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 01:41:45 PM PST

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    •  Yes, his embrace of austerity is very bad policy. (8+ / 0-)

      But his push for the Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, for marriage equality, for the stimulus, and many other such things, are all to the good.

      "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

      by raptavio on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 01:44:35 PM PST

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      •  Indeed they are (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        raptavio, Mr Robert, phonegery

        And I don't particularly want to make this about the President's shortcomings, but to stress the importance of advocating for policies even when they cannot be achieved.

        "The smartest man in the room is not always right." -Richard Holbrooke

        by Demi Moaned on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 01:48:05 PM PST

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        •  There's also the gamesmanship (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Willinois, doroma

          of staking out a moderate policy knowing it can't be achieved and making the other side look intractable and extreme.

          Both have their merits. Though I'm starting to lean more towards the advocate for progressivism tactic.

          "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

          by raptavio on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 01:50:58 PM PST

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          •  Not quite how I see it (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            raptavio, Dumbo

            I think weakening your ideas to make the other side look unreasonable is a fool's errand. It just shifts the center of debate rightward. And the meta-argument about who's the adult in the room has no resonance for the public at large. If anything, it ends up making them look more reasonable than they are.

            But I certainly agree that you have to choose your battles. If you're moving too many initiatives at the same time, they all get lost in the general noise of political argument.

            But there's no danger of anyone who's remotely likely to be a Democratic nominee for President advocating policies that are 'too advanced' for the public. So, there's no need for them to temper their rhetoric. If anything they should show more fire.

            "The smartest man in the room is not always right." -Richard Holbrooke

            by Demi Moaned on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 02:13:30 PM PST

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            •  Shifting the Overton Window (0+ / 0-)

              is a downside to that tactic, I agree -- and it's the principal reason why I'm leaning toward the other tactic.

              However, when you want to make the other side look completely unhinged and on the margins and your goal is the destruction of them as a political force -- and once they're gone you can make the debate be between the left and the center, rather than the center and the right -- the appeal of the tactic is self-explanatory.

              Basically it comes down to immediately making the argument between the left and the right, or making the argument look like it's between the center and the right (in the guise of an offered "compromise" that will be rejected) for the chance at making the argument between the left and the center. It's a gamble. One that I think we've been making for long enough. It's paid off enough that we can shift the debate leftward now.

              "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

              by raptavio on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 02:39:11 PM PST

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          •  Not talking about actual solutions to actual (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Demi Moaned

            problems guarantees gridlock.

            .................expect us......................... FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

            by Roger Fox on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 06:49:48 PM PST

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      •  embrace of austerity is bad policy... I don't care (6+ / 0-)

        who runs in 2016, but they'd better be able to PROVE they know more about real economics than the current occupant! that's one of Warren's indisputable strengths.

        AND it would be nice if Whoever has any kind of a record at picking and managing a staff! Staff selection in this administration has been HORRIFIC! for the most part. Talk about the Harvard-Good-Ole-Boys-Club!

        NO MORE people who think The Chicago Boys' economics is just dandy, or that Larry Summers and Rahm Emanuel are just the kind of guys I like in my "clubhouse", ETC!

        "real" work : a job where you wash your hands BEFORE you use the bathroom...

        by chimene on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 05:00:48 PM PST

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      •  lay down some numbers MR President (0+ / 0-)

        President Obama:
        My plan will create 20 million jobs, which adds more FICA to ensure SS solvency thru 2090.

        Hell if Dems did that in 2012, do you think the Tea Party Caucus survives?

        .................expect us......................... FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

        by Roger Fox on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 06:47:51 PM PST

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    •  But Obama's proposed budget (0+ / 0-)

      increases spending on social services and jobs programs. It has spent year after year pushing Congress to spend more on another jobs stimulus program. Sooo...that's not austerity.

    •  UR exactly right, I agree (0+ / 0-)

      .................expect us......................... FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

      by Roger Fox on Mon Nov 11, 2013 at 06:42:30 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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