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View Diary: PBS, JFK, and why I'm a Dem (84 comments)

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  •  Big profits for Brown & Root and for Bell (1+ / 0-)
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    RFK Lives

    Helicopter were a major effect of the Vietnam War, and undoubtedly played a role in LBJ's thinking.

    The influence of the [executive] has increased, is increasing, and ought to be diminished.

    by lysias on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 02:38:45 PM PST

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    •  Evidence? (2+ / 0-)
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      willyr, BlackSheep1

      In the numerous scholarly works that I have read over the years documenting the origins of the Vietnam War and LBJ's decision to escalate it in 1965, some very critical of Johnson, not a single one one has ever cited increased profits for Brown & Root and Bell as a factor in his decision to bomb NVN and send in ground troops. Yes, I know about LBJ's close ties to B&R since he was in Congress, but can you cite any documentary evidence to support your assertion that this was a significant factor in his decision making on Vietnam

      These Republican gluttons of priviledge are cold men ... They want a return of the Wall Street economic dictatorship -- Harry Truman

      by Laborguy on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 04:21:25 PM PST

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      •  Come on. You know about LBJ's ties to B&R (0+ / 0-)

        (detailed throughout the volumes of Robert Caro's biography of LBJ).  Bell Helicopter provided LBJ the helicopters he used in his campaigns (notably his "landslide" campaign for the Senate in 1948,) and Lady Bird owned a lot of Bell stock.

        All of this (including the connection with the Vietnam war) is detailed in Roger Stone's new book The Man Who Killed Kennedy, which I just finished reading.

        The influence of the [executive] has increased, is increasing, and ought to be diminished.

        by lysias on Thu Nov 14, 2013 at 07:47:16 AM PST

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        •  In other words, you have no evidence. (0+ / 0-)

          You have not provided a shred of credible objective facts to support your theory. What you (and Roger Stone) have provided is mere speculation, but without any objective evidence.  Your premise is that because Bell provided helicopters to LBJ in 1948, and his wife owned stock in the company, he must therefore have factored their increased profits arising from escalation when he made his decision to send ground troops into Vietnam in 1965.  Your notion that association proves causation is a classic logical fallacy.  This is the reason why wild speculation without evidence is generally worthless in any kind of meaningful historical analysis or scholarship.    

          These Republican gluttons of priviledge are cold men ... They want a return of the Wall Street economic dictatorship -- Harry Truman

          by Laborguy on Thu Nov 14, 2013 at 08:51:48 AM PST

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          •  Read Caro's volumes. Then get back to me (0+ / 0-)

            and tell me you don't believe corrupt considerations could not have played a role in LBJ's decisions.

            The influence of the [executive] has increased, is increasing, and ought to be diminished.

            by lysias on Thu Nov 14, 2013 at 04:16:55 PM PST

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            •  I am very familiar with Caro ... (0+ / 0-)

              and I don't recall him ever suggesting anything remotely close to the idea that LBJ expanded the Vietnam War to increase the profits of B&R or Bell.  That is merely your own inference.

              These Republican gluttons of priviledge are cold men ... They want a return of the Wall Street economic dictatorship -- Harry Truman

              by Laborguy on Thu Nov 14, 2013 at 05:17:14 PM PST

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          •  What's the kind of evidence that you think (0+ / 0-)

            might have existed if LBJ had expanded the Vietnam War for corrupt reasons and the absence of which you think argues against that view?  Do you really think LBJ would have put it down on paper or have mentioned it in telephone conversations that he knew were being recorded?

            The influence of the [executive] has increased, is increasing, and ought to be diminished.

            by lysias on Thu Nov 14, 2013 at 04:20:00 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Um, sorry, if you make an accusation or alledge (0+ / 0-)

              that someone has done something that you have no way of knowing yourself, then you ought to have at least something to back it up in the form of objective evidence. Saying that LBJ wouldnt have left any evidence does not support your argument in any way.  You are offering nothing more than your own inference based on causation through association, which is a logical fallacy found in many dubious theories.  A classic example of such bogus logic is the following conspiracy theory:  1.  Hillary Clinton worked in the same law firm as Vince Foster and was close to him for many years.  2.  Vince Foster would have therefore have been aware of the Clinton's financial and legal problems with Whitewater and other corruption scandals.  3.  When Bill became president, the Clintons were desperate to cover up evidence of their corruption and misdeeds in Arkansas.  4.  Therefore, Hillary and Bill must have had Deputy White House Counsel Vince Foster murdered and then made it look like a suicide in order to cover up evidence of their corruption.  Your inference against LBJ is based on the same dubious logic as the right wing conspiracy theories about Vince Foster's death and no more credible.

              These Republican gluttons of priviledge are cold men ... They want a return of the Wall Street economic dictatorship -- Harry Truman

              by Laborguy on Thu Nov 14, 2013 at 05:37:55 PM PST

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              •  I happen to have worked in the Pentagon. (0+ / 0-)

                I know about corrupt (although legal) dealings with contractors.

                The influence of the [executive] has increased, is increasing, and ought to be diminished.

                by lysias on Fri Nov 15, 2013 at 07:25:54 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

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