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View Diary: Craven, Dishonest, Corrupt Politician: A Definition (78 comments)

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  •  I'm using the argument about secularism to (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lostinamerica

    emphasize the importance of clean government.

    Let me try it another way... Let's say that I'm coming from the perspective that government is the most important institution in society because without it there is no society, no rule of law, no national security, etc.

    And let's say that I equate secularism in government with enlightenment and rationality, as in "Separation between Church and State."

    I'm using that as the moral argument of the importance of a clean government, as a secularist.

    Then from there I build on my argument about what I consider to be actions that pervert good governance, like influence-peddling corruption.

    Now, if you present a counter-argument that shows that in the thousands of small cities around the country you can find examples of corruption by both, secular and religious government functionaries, my answer would be that that is not the focus of my argument.

    The initial mention of secularism and government, I'm using it to emphasize the importance of government, in my argument.

    The actual focus of the diary is on influence-peddling corruption.  On politicians who have the intent to use their position and power to curry favor for powerful business interest in the expectation of rewards.  I think that's a pretty straightforward description of corruption, won't you agree?

    I understand if you don't accept my argument, that politicians who have the intent of using their office to enrich themselves are corrupt, but then we'll have to agree to disagree on that one--if you don't accept that argument.

    •  then the opening paragraph (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Hey338Too

      does not quite connect with the rest of the diary and are two different arguments.

      Politicians who engage in influence peddling (something that's been with us as long as humans have been organizing complex societies) are corrupt, no argument there.

      It has nothing to do with either separation of church and state or a secular society.

      Dawkins is to atheism as Rand is to personal responsibility (not an original but rather apt)

      by terrypinder on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 02:43:32 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Okay, but I'm sure that you're not arguing that (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        lostinamerica

        because you don't like the first paragraph, the entire theme of the diary is invalidated, right?  Let me know, just to make sure...

        Also, regarding this statement:

        Politicians who engage in influence peddling (something that's been with us as long as humans have been organizing complex societies) are corrupt, no argument there.
        The emphasis is mine

        You wouldn't be arguing that calling attention to political corruption is hopeless, right?  If that was the case, then this comes to mind:

        Associate opponent charges with old news. A derivative of the straw man usually, in any large-scale matter of high visibility, someone will make charges early on which can be or were already easily dealt with. Where it can be foreseen, have your own side raise a straw man issue and have it dealt with early on as part of the initial contingency plans. Subsequent charges, regardless of validity or new ground uncovered, can usually them be associated with the original charge and dismissed as simply being a rehash without need to address current issues — so much the better where the opponent is or was involved with the original source.
        Let me know, just to clarify.
        •  ... (0+ / 0-)

          no, entire diary isn't invalid. and it's not that I dislike the first paragraph, it's that the first paragraph doesn't quite look like reality.

          Dawkins is to atheism as Rand is to personal responsibility (not an original but rather apt)

          by terrypinder on Thu Nov 14, 2013 at 09:59:57 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

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